• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

Cylinder compression

Started by StealBlueSho, February 03, 2018, 07:09:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

StealBlueSho

What are typical symptoms with these 3.5TT ecoboost motors when you have compression loss in a cylinder?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ZSHO

#1
Fuel smell ,rough idle,hesitation!  If you need a Compression Test procedure LMK!  Z  :)


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

StealBlueSho

Would I be seeing misfires?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ZSHO

#3
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 03, 2018, 07:49:25 PM
Would I be seeing misfires?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Depending how much compression is lost @ specific cylinder!  Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

ZSHO

Compression Test  .Z

Make sure the oil in the crankcase is of the correct viscosity and at the correct level and that the battery is correctly charged. Operate the vehicle until the engine is at normal operating temperature. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position, then remove all the spark plugs.
Set the throttle plates in the wide-open position.
Install a compression gauge in the No. 1 cylinder.
Install an auxiliary starter switch in the starting circuit. With the ignition switch in the OFF position, and using the auxiliary starter switch, crank the engine a minimum of 5 compression strokes and record the highest reading. Note the approximate number of compression strokes necessary to obtain the highest reading.
Repeat the test on each cylinder, cranking the engine approximately the same number of compression strokes.
Compression Test — 3.5L Engine Test Results

The indicated compression pressures are considered within specification if the lowest reading cylinder is at least 75% of the highest reading. Refer to the Compression Pressure Limit Chart.



If one or more cylinders reads low, squirt approximately one tablespoon of engine oil meeting Ford specification on top of the pistons in the low-reading cylinders. Repeat the compression pressure check on these cylinders.

Compression Test — 3.5L Gasoline Turbocharged Direct Injection (GTDI) Engine Test Results

The indicated compression pressures are considered within specification if the lowest reading cylinder is at least 75% of the highest reading. Refer to the Compression Pressure Limit Chart.



If one or more cylinders reads low, squirt approximately one tablespoon of engine oil meeting Ford specification on top of the pistons in the low-reading cylinders. Repeat the compression pressure check on these cylinders.

Compression Test — Interpreting Compression Readings

If compression improves considerably, piston rings are worn or damaged.
If compression does not improve, valves are sticking or not seating correctly.
If 2 adjacent cylinders indicate low compression pressures and squirting oil on each piston does not increase compression, the head gasket may be leaking between cylinders. Engine oil or coolant in cylinders could result from this condition.
Use the Compression Pressure Limit Chart when checking cylinder compression so that the lowest reading is within 75% of the highest reading.
Cylinder Leakage Detection

When a cylinder produces a low reading, use of a cylinder leakage tester will be helpful in pinpointing the exact cause.

The leakage tester is inserted in the spark plug hole, the piston is brought up to Top Dead Center (TDC) on the compression stroke, and compressed air is admitted.

Once the combustion chamber is pressurized, the leakage tester gauge will read the percentage of leakage. Leakage exceeding 20% is excessive.

While the air pressure is retained in the cylinder, listen for the hiss of escaping air. A leak at the intake valve will be heard in the Throttle Body (TB) . A leak at the exhaust valve can be heard at the tailpipe. Leakage past the piston rings will be audible at the PCV connection. If air is passing through a blown head gasket to an adjacent cylinder, the noise will be evident at the spark plug hole of the cylinder into which the air is leaking. Cracks in the cylinder block or gasket leakage into the cooling system may be detected by a stream of bubbles in the radiator.


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

StealBlueSho

Gonna run a compression test this week... I am not having any misfires or any real symptoms I should say.. I am getting a slight knock almost like piston slap for a short time when the motor is warming up... it's been below freezing so I'm not sure if I should give it any real thought... after the car goes through it's warm up the noise is gone and I cannot duplicate it.

Could be nothing, could be something, not sure... but if I am looking at bigger turbos I need to make sure the motor is good...

Still pulls hard and smooth, idles the same it always has. Since I have put on the downpipes there has been a fuel smell but I suspect it's because the high flow cats don't do anything.

I don't want to spend the money shipping the car to LME for turbos and a dyno tune just for them to tell me the motor has a problem...

No codes and all the data logs look good..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Macgyver

Sounds like the start up rattle some people talk about.

Some say that using the Motorcraft oil filter can resolve this.

StealBlueSho

Quote from: Macgyver on February 04, 2018, 03:56:39 PM
Sounds like the start up rattle some people talk about.

Some say that using the Motorcraft oil filter can resolve this.

I'm familiar with the startup rattle, and yes, the Motorcraft filter DOES make a huge difference. That startup rattle only lasts for a few seconds.

This lasts until the warmup cycle is almost complete. And it's not steady in its loudness it kinda fades in and out. I almost thought it was the downpipe connection to the turbo not being torqued down...

I only mention piston slap because tapping on cold starts tends to be a piston slap issue...

Recent oil changes have not had any metal shavings that I could see... dunno... maybe being paranoid (again)...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SHOdded

Does the rattling issue present itself when idling to warmup, or only when driving around?   Severity change with RPM?  A steady rattle might have pointed to the timing system, like it does with the F150.  Maybe VCT solenoid replacement can help avert that crisis.  No one that I know of has torn down a "faulty" engine to determine the possibility of the oil jets not working right to cool the pistons.

Trying to determine loose component vs bearing possibility.

As far as shavings in oil, I assume you have used a good magnet to help pull those out of suspension.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

StealBlueSho

Only on warm up when it's been sitting long enough for the engine to go cold.. ie over night and only when it gets below freezing at night. After the warm up cycle it goes away. The sound doesn't change severity with RPMs but follows RPMs for the first 500 rpm then goes away. Goes away when RPMs increase after but I only give it a little gas when warming it up when diagnosing cause that's hard on a cold motor...

Very well could be the timing chain rattling, hadn't really thought the chain might be stretched...

Yea I ran a magnet, shined the lights into it, and opened the filter... no shaving to speak of...

My guess is when the temperatures warm up the tapping will go away... not that that is a good answer.

The only reason I don't think it's a loose component is the brief period where it follows the RPM for 500rpms...

Dunno?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TopherSho

Quote from: stealbluesho on February 04, 2018, 03:13:57 PM
Gonna run a compression test this week... I am not having any misfires or any real symptoms I should say.. I am getting a slight knock almost like piston slap for a short time when the motor is warming up... it's been below freezing so I'm not sure if I should give it any real thought... after the car goes through it's warm up the noise is gone and I cannot duplicate it.

Could be nothing, could be something, not sure... but if I am looking at bigger turbos I need to make sure the motor is good...

Still pulls hard and smooth, idles the same it always has. Since I have put on the downpipes there has been a fuel smell but I suspect it's because the high flow cats don't do anything.

I don't want to spend the money shipping the car to LME for turbos and a dyno tune just for them to tell me the motor has a problem...

No codes and all the data logs look good..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The do have a solution for a bad block ;) https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750101
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

StealBlueSho

Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: stealbluesho on February 04, 2018, 03:13:57 PM
Gonna run a compression test this week... I am not having any misfires or any real symptoms I should say.. I am getting a slight knock almost like piston slap for a short time when the motor is warming up... it's been below freezing so I'm not sure if I should give it any real thought... after the car goes through it's warm up the noise is gone and I cannot duplicate it.

Could be nothing, could be something, not sure... but if I am looking at bigger turbos I need to make sure the motor is good...

Still pulls hard and smooth, idles the same it always has. Since I have put on the downpipes there has been a fuel smell but I suspect it's because the high flow cats don't do anything.

I don't want to spend the money shipping the car to LME for turbos and a dyno tune just for them to tell me the motor has a problem...

No codes and all the data logs look good..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The do have a solution for a bad block ;) https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750101

This is under consideration... but besides a cold start tapping I have no other symptoms... not ready to throw the towel in on the block lol...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TopherSho

#12
Is there a way to validate oil pressure!?  .. in older cars like my 69 nova,  the built 327 i had did something similar in the winter until i dropped thickness. 
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction

StealBlueSho

Quote from: TopherSho on February 05, 2018, 12:10:34 PM
Is there a way to validate oik pressure!?  .. in older cars like my 69 nova,  the built 327 i had did something similar in the winter until i dropped thickness.

I have checked livelink... and there is no PID/DMR/OSC for that.. which seems weird to me. I am not sure what the threshold is for the oil pressure before a CEL is triggered...

TopherSho

hmmm that concerns me .. What filters are you running?  If it is not a high flow filter you could change your oil to remove as much debris as possible,  then swap in a much higher flow filter and retest.
2010 non-pp, 98k miles, 3-bar,  .026 plugs, SNOW-KIT STG1, AJPTurbu tune#35, 15.5+psi
Best 0-60 public road 4.35s
Best 1/4 of 12.61 no DA correction