Hey. I just bought myself a 10in sub (375w rms) in a cool led lit box. Also got a kenwood kac-729s 600w amplifier. I want to know if my stock electrical system can handle the extra load. I look in the manual for the amp and it says "Current Consumption (1 kHz, 10% THD)=28 Amps". Any ideas if my car can handle it?
Amp and watt question
- Thread starter jtoddk98
- Start date
I have no idea if that sounds good or not, but to answer your question on wiring,
I like to use wire from this place www.wireandsupply.com and I order the 4 or 1/0 gauge welding cable. The stuff you get at Walmart etc. for ~$30 bucks is likely not good quality stuff, although it may work in a pinch. But welding cable is something that MUST pass stringent requirements and it is a known-good product (pure copper), so that's why I use it. I always cover it in techflex (order from "furryletters" off eBay), and heatshrink.
Dual as a brand is not really that good, however the MMATS product is known to be an excellent brand.
I like to use wire from this place www.wireandsupply.com and I order the 4 or 1/0 gauge welding cable. The stuff you get at Walmart etc. for ~$30 bucks is likely not good quality stuff, although it may work in a pinch. But welding cable is something that MUST pass stringent requirements and it is a known-good product (pure copper), so that's why I use it. I always cover it in techflex (order from "furryletters" off eBay), and heatshrink.
Dual as a brand is not really that good, however the MMATS product is known to be an excellent brand.
The power cable should never, EVER get warm.
This is a sign that something is wrong. Either the ground is not good enough, or the power wiring (fusing, etc) is not good enough. Something is not good enough.
There is extreme danger in letting wiring be a weak link. Since it snakes through the car, probably unsheathed and unprotected, it can cause obscene, unnecessary damage potentially. Also, the amp you paid for is not actually doing rated power, because the wire is literally sucking up some of the voltage.
Second issue, that sub box is a bandbass box. Bandpass is in most situations, built to play a small frequency range very, very loudly. They can be made to perform but usually, they are made to sound impressive on a car stereo store wall but in a car, they are not tuned for the cabin inside. This is an unfortunate byproduct of mass-marketing and "universal" box construction. Truth is, all parameters (car size, customer needs, budget, etc) all play into what box and what sub goes into said box. I'm pointing this out to you because what you have may have overboosted output at certain frequencies (these would be resonant frequencies), and muted or underboosted points at other frequencies, and there can potentially be quite a few peaks and nulls. You may find this annoying, as I do. What it tends to do is fatigue the ears and tends to make a less enjoyable musical experience than expected.
If you find yourself wishing for more, especially if you are into something that can be cranked without fatigue, please let me know and I can try to help much further.
edited to say: I would absolutely do something about the wiring, STAT.
This is a sign that something is wrong. Either the ground is not good enough, or the power wiring (fusing, etc) is not good enough. Something is not good enough.
There is extreme danger in letting wiring be a weak link. Since it snakes through the car, probably unsheathed and unprotected, it can cause obscene, unnecessary damage potentially. Also, the amp you paid for is not actually doing rated power, because the wire is literally sucking up some of the voltage.
Second issue, that sub box is a bandbass box. Bandpass is in most situations, built to play a small frequency range very, very loudly. They can be made to perform but usually, they are made to sound impressive on a car stereo store wall but in a car, they are not tuned for the cabin inside. This is an unfortunate byproduct of mass-marketing and "universal" box construction. Truth is, all parameters (car size, customer needs, budget, etc) all play into what box and what sub goes into said box. I'm pointing this out to you because what you have may have overboosted output at certain frequencies (these would be resonant frequencies), and muted or underboosted points at other frequencies, and there can potentially be quite a few peaks and nulls. You may find this annoying, as I do. What it tends to do is fatigue the ears and tends to make a less enjoyable musical experience than expected.
If you find yourself wishing for more, especially if you are into something that can be cranked without fatigue, please let me know and I can try to help much further.
edited to say: I would absolutely do something about the wiring, STAT.
You sure know your stuff! Thanks for pointing out the wiring issue, I found that I didn't have a good ground because I had it going to a painted surface, I sanded it down, reattached the cable, and then went on a 45 min drive to a baseball game. The cable is running at ambient temp now. All fixed! As for the sub box, I am experiencing what you described. Some frequencies shake the car, while others are almost silent. Any way to fix this cheaply? Thanks for your help!!!Lanson said:
Well the right thing to do would be to return or sell the poorly designed bandpass box, and build/buy a stout enclosure with a decent sub. Note, you don't have to spend a lot to get a lot, when it comes to subs. $160-200 for a sub should last you pretty much forever, if you take care of it. For the sake of simplicity, I would recommend quality 12" or 15", in a sealed box. The box should not be a flimsy flea-market box, but a strong 3/4" MDF wood enclosure with bracing. If you don't want to make one, you can buy one (check local stereo shops worth a darn) or if you just so happen to be around Las Vegas, I'd be more than happy to get my paws on it. Anyway, there are 100's if not more solid good brands for subwoofers, so I'm just going to throw out ones I know that will absolutely get the job done, at a low price.
This is Sundown's little B-stock website, which means refurbs, scratch-dent, etc (but all 100% functional and perfect sound-wise, so GREAT for the budget), http://www.caraudiobargain.com/sub-woofers/ , now specifically, I was looking at the Sundown E series 15" v2 http://www.caraudiobargain.com/products/sundown-audio-ev2-15-subwoofer-e15v2-500w-e-series.html for $121.50, or this Sundown SD-2 12" http://www.caraudiobargain.com/products/sundown-audio-sd-2-12-500-watt-sd-series.html for $162, or similar, something like that. Now each sub has its own box size requirements for best performance, but to give you a quickie on that, the E series will like a big box (2.5 cubic feet sealed), and the SD-2 is actually designed for very small boxes, and very narrow/shallow boxes with its shallow design, like a box that is 1 to 1.5 cubic feet would be a great.
I can't find the owners manual info on your amp anywhere, but if you are bridging the amp, would you mind telling me what MMATS is suggesting the RMS power output of the two channels bridged will be? I can guess about 240W or so. This is low (and 600W amps run about $100, and I mean GOOD ones not brands like Dual which you can pass on) but you can definitely use it. It will want a 4 ohm total load, so any sub you buy needs to be either a 4ohm sub, or a Dual 2 ohm sub (D2), which you'll series-connect the terminals to make a 4ohm load so that MMATS amp doesn't fry. BTW that amp was more designed as a midbass or front door type amp, just FYI.
Now if you want to be cheeky, you can try blocking off the bandpass port on the sub box you have now, and see if you like the sound better. I wouldn't suggest that as a permanent solution, but that will at least make what you have work.
How much have you spent on all your gear so far?
This is Sundown's little B-stock website, which means refurbs, scratch-dent, etc (but all 100% functional and perfect sound-wise, so GREAT for the budget), http://www.caraudiobargain.com/sub-woofers/ , now specifically, I was looking at the Sundown E series 15" v2 http://www.caraudiobargain.com/products/sundown-audio-ev2-15-subwoofer-e15v2-500w-e-series.html for $121.50, or this Sundown SD-2 12" http://www.caraudiobargain.com/products/sundown-audio-sd-2-12-500-watt-sd-series.html for $162, or similar, something like that. Now each sub has its own box size requirements for best performance, but to give you a quickie on that, the E series will like a big box (2.5 cubic feet sealed), and the SD-2 is actually designed for very small boxes, and very narrow/shallow boxes with its shallow design, like a box that is 1 to 1.5 cubic feet would be a great.
I can't find the owners manual info on your amp anywhere, but if you are bridging the amp, would you mind telling me what MMATS is suggesting the RMS power output of the two channels bridged will be? I can guess about 240W or so. This is low (and 600W amps run about $100, and I mean GOOD ones not brands like Dual which you can pass on) but you can definitely use it. It will want a 4 ohm total load, so any sub you buy needs to be either a 4ohm sub, or a Dual 2 ohm sub (D2), which you'll series-connect the terminals to make a 4ohm load so that MMATS amp doesn't fry. BTW that amp was more designed as a midbass or front door type amp, just FYI.
Now if you want to be cheeky, you can try blocking off the bandpass port on the sub box you have now, and see if you like the sound better. I wouldn't suggest that as a permanent solution, but that will at least make what you have work.
How much have you spent on all your gear so far?
jtoddk98 said:
jtoddk98 said:
For reference, an amp is only worth buying if it can put out RMS power all the time. Disregard and completely ignore any peak power ratings. Consider those markeneering at its finest.
It sounds like you overspent. As I said, the amp is good (but it is not a subwoofer-optimized amp), but the box and sub are not. So I stand by my suggestions regarding the sub. Try closing off the bandpass port, but in the end I think selling/returning that box and going with something better will make you happier.
And by all means, ask any questions you have. For me its always rewarding to help audio neophytes toward the path of awesome
Oh and don't forget to save up a little bit and get some deadening. I like RAAMmat especially when on a tight budget. Just a few tiles will change everything for the trunk, as well as the doors or anywhere else you are installing new gear.
For a future thread follower saying, "hey, what would you buy for $250 then, smarty?" Now this answer only applies as long as the items are still sold, and priced at the prices that I'm about to show...but here's how you spend $250. Amp - As long as these are still in stock, this is 600W @ 2ohms RMS (CEA-2006 certified) Once those are all gone, hopefully the PPI Sedona 850.1D is still around http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_27142_Precision_Power_S8501D.aspx which is close to 600W @ 2ohm, or close to 850W @ 1ohm. Remember there's a 6% discount (minimum) out there for OCS website on the web, so you'll save a little extra money... oh and free shipping too. Sub - (coil ohm spec changes depending on what amp you get) http://www.woofersetc.com/p-11861-e-12d2-v2-sundown-audio-12-500w-rms-dual-2-ohm-e-series-subwoofer.aspx (I picked woofersetc.com in this case because its free shipping, thus easier for me to create a $250 hard budget.)
I'm at $220 so far. The rest goes to installation/fab materials. If your budget is even tighter or you have NO wire or fusing or anything and you MUST stay under $250, consider this sub http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20077_JBL_GT5-15.aspx or its 12" cousin. When there's no money in the kitty, JBL's basic subs are a fantastic fall-back. Bigger box requirements though...
It is true that PPI, Soundstream, and Orion are all owned by Epsilon now, but that's still way better than their previous owner DEI in my opinion. Same as Power Acoustik and others, BUT it is also important to remember that their mid and upper end are still really, really good quality overall. Definitely worth considering. I merely picked an amp quickly through my supply of options, but that amp could easily have been a Soundstream Picasso or Picasso Nano, or Tarantula Nano model, or a PPI Phantom or Black Ice.
I've read and participated in deep discussions with the new designers of these amps and the brand line in general, and it is absolutely clear that even though Epsilon owns them, the direction they are going is UP in quality and performance, not down to flea-market level. In fact, the upper lineup of SS or PPI right now are WORLD-CLASS, and worthy to try without much actual expense. Would I buy one of their subs over one from Jacob at Sundown or Nick at Stereo Integrity? Hell no, I would rather buy from Jacob or Nick. But for amps and such, sure. For front speakers, I usually gravitate toward home speakers optimized for car use, but I'd still rock a set of PPI Power Class 3-way components if they fit the build.
I've read and participated in deep discussions with the new designers of these amps and the brand line in general, and it is absolutely clear that even though Epsilon owns them, the direction they are going is UP in quality and performance, not down to flea-market level. In fact, the upper lineup of SS or PPI right now are WORLD-CLASS, and worthy to try without much actual expense. Would I buy one of their subs over one from Jacob at Sundown or Nick at Stereo Integrity? Hell no, I would rather buy from Jacob or Nick. But for amps and such, sure. For front speakers, I usually gravitate toward home speakers optimized for car use, but I'd still rock a set of PPI Power Class 3-way components if they fit the build.