Bigger HPFP and power...

[StealBlueSHO]

So I had an interesting conversation with Matt Robinson over at GH...

The LMS tune for the E30 is targeting 14psi and about 23* of spark up top plus fueling optimization etc... but for this discussion I am more concerned with boost and spark..

Matt targets close to 17psi from our discussion but is concerned about the heat production due to the poor placement/efficiency of the stock intercooler. He is seeing round 175F-180F IAT's at 17PSI after a 1/4 mile run which is getting really hot! Even with E85 offsetting the octane of 93 it can only take soo much...

So it looks like Meth is still needed to help offset the heat although not to offset the lack of fuel... this is disappointing to say the least... but it does mean that a meth setup would only need to spray enough to keep the heat down which should be drastically less than whats needed to offset fuel...

FWIW.. Matt said he should be hearing soon about the availability of the better IC for our car.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[Macgyver]

If your fuel is still ok. Have you tried E40ish ?

 

[StealBlueSHO]

If your fuel is still ok. Have you tried E40ish ?

I can ask LMS if they have an E40 tune. Not gonna help the IATs though.




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[bpd1151]

***subscribed***

As I plan on purchasing (either of the two) HPFP's from LMS in early August (1st or 2nd week there of).

Coupled with the bigger injector's from Deatschwerks, as well as the upgraded COP's from MSD, I too am curious about this topic.

From what I understood/understand, the bigger HPFP was more for safety rather than specific power gains per se, but who knows.

Thus the subscription.

I've been hearing about (alleged) IC upgrades like forever and a day now, but nothing has panned out to my knowledge.

Other than the SHO owner out in AZ. that cut like 80%-85% of his (actual) front bumper out (not the bumper cover, the actual structural portion of the bumper itself) which I'll add, I have ZERO intentions/desire of following suit/or doing the same.

So umm yea, let the ensuing discussion(s) commence.

 

[ajpturbo]

Just a question but what is the problem with IAT’s if you have no knock?

E40-E50 when direct injected has a super high effective octane....that’s the beauty of octane, iats become less relavant

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Just a question but what is the problem with IAT’s if you have no knock?

E40-E50 when direct injected has a super high effective octane....that’s the beauty of octane, iats become less relavant

So my understanding is that at E47 the stock in tank pump starts to have issues keeping up when tuned....

I gonna mix E40 next time just to see what the duty cycles and pressures look like (yay!! I can actually log duty cycle of the lpfp in this car!!!)...

But as far as IATs... running 180+ seems high from my point of view... never had a car that ran that high un load... could be perfectly safe?

But being as GH and LMS both appear to want to keep IATs lower than that means something.


And BPD... yes it’s for safety but it also provides more fuel if you want to turn it up... our cars tend to not be knock limited but fuel pressure limited to those of us with access to 93 and/or E85...

LMS V11 tune punishes the fuel pressure... unless you are running in hot weather or high altitudes where you are getting less air.... just adding HPFP allows you to get the most of out that tune... do an E30 blend on that V11 tune and you can max out the allowed spark. More power essentially...


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[ajpturbo]

@sbs ...that’s what I mean about iats...why does 180 seem high? Because you can’t touch or drink 180 liquid? As long as the cooling system is adequate and not overheating and the fuel is not showing preignition the motor doesn’t really care how hot the charge air is

With normal fuel the iats being lower help because then you can take advantage of the power afforded to you from running more spark that will automatically be available due to spark iat compensations that are set up for a given fuel which normally is pump gas

If running ethanol, methanol, alcohol then you could massively relax those if not eliminate them...

Exotic fuels don’t even require using an intercooler

Being able to lower iats from a better incooler is free power but if you are not knocking on a given fuel and the tune is setup properly then the power will be there anyway

I think we are just pre conditioned to think a particular number is high because that’s typically as high as we see

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I think we are just pre conditioned to think a particular number is high because that’s typically as high as we see

This maybe very true! I need to do some more research on this....

Hot air has less oxygen in it to burn.. so there is a point of less power per psi....

Dunno... the tune would need to account for the hotter air...

Ideally with Meth or better intercooler combined with the hpfp... then you have the best of both worlds... then your limiting factor would be the stock turbos...




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[TopherSho]

***subscribed***

As I plan on purchasing (either of the two) HPFP's from LMS in early August (1st or 2nd week there of).

Coupled with the bigger injector's from Deatschwerks, as well as the upgraded COP's from MSD, I too am curious about this topic.

From what I understood/understand, the bigger HPFP was more for safety rather than specific power gains per se, but who knows.

Thus the subscription.

I've been hearing about (alleged) IC upgrades like forever and a day now, but nothing has panned out to my knowledge.

Other than the SHO owner out in AZ. that cut like 80%-85% of his (actual) front bumper out (not the bumper cover, the actual structural portion of the bumper itself) which I'll add, I have ZERO intentions/desire of following suit/or doing the same.

So umm yea, let the ensuing discussion(s) commence.

Please notify the Fourm when you start this project!    i'd like to follow the progress and see how the tranny handles the upcoming TQ gains..

 

[StealBlueSHO]

***subscribed***

As I plan on purchasing (either of the two) HPFP's from LMS in early August (1st or 2nd week there of).

Coupled with the bigger injector's from Deatschwerks, as well as the upgraded COP's from MSD, I too am curious about this topic.

From what I understood/understand, the bigger HPFP was more for safety rather than specific power gains per se, but who knows.

Thus the subscription.

I've been hearing about (alleged) IC upgrades like forever and a day now, but nothing has panned out to my knowledge.

Other than the SHO owner out in AZ. that cut like 80%-85% of his (actual) front bumper out (not the bumper cover, the actual structural portion of the bumper itself) which I'll add, I have ZERO intentions/desire of following suit/or doing the same.

So umm yea, let the ensuing discussion(s) commence.

Please notify the Fourm when you start this project!    i'd like to follow the progress and see how the tranny handles the upcoming TQ gains..

Not so rain the parade... but I believe Mike is doing this for efficiency and safety...

If he wanted to test the transmission/PTU all he would need to do is load his 617awhp file....which he has not run down the track yet...

Still cool to see what may come of it...


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[TopherSho]

:boat: so much rain i needed a boat

 

[bpd1151]

SBS is spot-on accurate.

But I suppose someday, even my drivetrain will need to be addressed.

For now though, she's still doing fine.

Thankfully.

 

[J-Will]

this post had me going through a response roller coaster

... heat production due to the poor placement/efficiency of the stock intercooler....

"great, so lets get a better CAC, which GH is working to provide" - me, thinking to myself

So it looks like Meth is still needed to help offset the heat although not to offset the lack of fuel...

"no!  I was really hoping a better CAC would achieve the desired result" - me, thinking to myself

FWIW.. Matt said he should be hearing soon about the availability of the better IC for our car.

"Yes, wooohooo  "

 

[J-Will]

where in northern VA are you getting E blends?

 

[mrhighcaliber]

Preturbo meth injection works wonders for this. I didn't get a chance to datalog for gearhead tuning (new sct from them is in the mail) before my Sho's total loss collision, but with meth on a 75-85 degree day, I was seeing wot iat's climb  from 118 up to 140 13-14psi target with post cac meth alone. With post cac meth and pre turbo meth I would see max 130.  I'm plotting on a 2013-15 and I will run the same setup. Meth +hpfp upgrade provides great power and max safety. Adding pre turbo meth nozzles and or upgraded turbos with provide imho, a parallel increase in power and safety.

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[StealBlueSHO]

where in northern VA are you getting E blends?

There is an E85 pump at the Sheetz in Manassas by the Costco and another one at the Raceway Gas station in Opal across from the Clarkbrothers shooting range.


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[SHOdded]

Wonder if preturbo meth spraying will help keep the carbon buildup up off them too.

 

[NITSOOB]

Preturbo meth injection works wonders for this. I didn't get a chance to datalog for gearhead tuning (new sct from them is in the mail) before my Sho's total loss collision, but with meth on a 75-85 degree day, I was seeing wot iat's climb  from 118 up to 140 13-14psi target with post cac meth alone. With post cac meth and pre turbo meth I would see max 130.  I'm plotting on a 2013-15 and I will run the same setup. Meth +hpfp upgrade provides great power and max safety. Adding pre turbo meth nozzles and or upgraded turbos with provide imho, a parallel increase in power and safety.

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Pics and details of your pre turbo setup please!! Nozzle, placement etc..

 

[J-Will]

where in northern VA are you getting E blends?

There is an E85 pump at the Sheetz in Manassas by the Costco and another one at the Raceway Gas station in Opal across from the Clarkbrothers shooting range.


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I looked up the e85 pump location using the DoE site, and was pleasently surprised to see so many more stations that have e85 in northern VA. This has to have significantly changed from about 6mo ago!
Thanks for the heads up

Also, keep us updated on the GH CAC. Monitoring all of these sites and Facebook groups is too much of a chore. We ate too fragmented.

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[StealBlueSHO]

where in northern VA are you getting E blends?

There is an E85 pump at the Sheetz in Manassas by the Costco and another one at the Raceway Gas station in Opal across from the Clarkbrothers shooting range.


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I looked up the e85 pump location using the DoE site, and was pleasently surprised to see so many more stations that have e85 in northern VA. This has to have significantly changed from about 6mo ago!
Thanks for the heads up

Also, keep us updated on the GH CAC. Monitoring all of these sites and Facebook groups is too much of a chore. We ate too fragmented.

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Careful with that site... lots of “E85” stations that are just E10.




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