Brake problem.

[Kolk1]

Ok, im going to bug my buddy that owns a performance shop tomorrow about it, to see what he says but I have no idea when he will be able to get me in, hes normally slammed, but for now, im lost.

I swear something must be broke, brakes are not that complex, Ive done engine rebuilds and motor swaps, I shouldnt be having a problem like this, but I am....

Ok, my old front brakes were very easily getting so hot to make large black circles on my front rotors. So I bought new StopTech Rotors, all around, and EBC Red Pads all around.

Used a C-clamp to slightly compress the front caliper to make room for the new rotors and pads. Used a tool (piston screw thing) to spin the piston in the rear caliper just 1/2 turn so it would fit over the new brakes like normal. Get in the car, pump Normal brake pedal, apply ebake, and take for a test drive. Pedal feels soft and long pedal throw. Figure the EBC pads have a break in period, so ill put some miles on the car and go from there. Brakes now grab way better, but pedal is still soft and long. So I start looking everything over.

The rear brakes seem to be the problem. The Caliper bracket is solid, but the caliper itself is still loose. I can jiggle the main section. So I try and see if I can tighten the piston by unscrewing it, but then its not enough room and wont fit over the pads. Do some research, and it reads that ive done everything correct, and the Ebrake is supposed to reset the piston and take the slack out the caliper. The EBC pads came with back plates, so I put those on, and it helped, but not perfect, still a tiny bit of wiggle in the caliper. Front brakes feel fine, Ive bled them like normal using the brakes, and Ive pumped the Ebrake as well a thousand times, Ive done everything I can think of, but there is still a little bit of slack in both rear calipers, a very tiny amount in the passenger rear, but more in the drivers rear.

My thought is either im completely missing something ive never dealt with before, or something is wrong that caused my old brakes to burn up. Oh, and I did one slightly harder stop than normal last night, and now I have a black line around my front rotors. As soon as the pedal maked a slight bit of sound and felt a hair different I let off instantly. But it was so minor compared to how hard Ive railed on my brakes in other cars. Like, not even 50% of the braking I used to put my Genesis through, and it never had an issue besides normal brake maintenance.

Im lost...

 

[SoCalSHO]

Isn't there a proportioning valve? To make sure fronts and rears are getting the right stopping power. Maybe it is an ABS problem? Master cylinder problem. But yeah, your brakes do seem screwed up, and if was doing it before, I believe that you did not miss anything. 

 

[Kolk1]

I dont know if the calipers were loose before, didnt check, but they didnt fit the new brakes, so I know I had to screw in the piston 1/2 turn.

But pretty much the same thing is happening still though, any type of Medium braking and you can tell the fronts are hot, and you need to let up. This is why when I did new brakes about thought about adding air ducts, but I thought id see how the new brakes/rotors performed first.

I did a Systems Check on the dash, and it says everything is ok, but I dont think I can see whole story.

 

[SoCalSHO]

It may need to be hooked up to a Ford system. Sorry I am not more of a help.

 

[Kolk1]

So basically, after having it in the shop and up on the lift, neither of my rear brake calipers are keeping pressure on pads, they completely retract to where they arent even touching the pads. I am going to take it to ford tomorrow morning because Calipers are not under Wear and Tear parts of the normal braking system, so I should still be under warrenty, and there is a small chance I could get some reimbursement money for having to replace my pads and rotors since they went out due to the caliper failure, but im not holding my breath. I only called Ford to see their price and availability on the calipers, and thats when he said I should really bring it in because it should be covered under warranty. So worse case, they look at it, say no, and I buy the calipers anyway. lol

 

[crash712us]

Better put your old stuff back on, just from others I've heard they won't touch it.

 

[Kolk1]

I already threw it all away. So worse case, I go back to plan A) and just buy 2 new rear calipers. Not that worried about it.

Ill go in, explain the situation, if they say go away, then ill walk over to parts and order 2 new ones.

This is car #27, and this would be the first time I have ever went back to a dealership to see if something was under warranty. And its only $200 for new calipers. Not a huge deal.

 

[Kolk1]

Ok, so the passenger rear caliper was actually ok, it was only the drivers side. Swapped it out yesterday, and bled it myself, then took it to my buddies shop and he flushed the whole system with new fluid. Feels WAY better to say the least. Still has the OEM soft pedal, but way better than the last month or so since I guess the old caliper started going out and fried my stock brakes. lol

I still might look into doing the 13 master cylinder conversion, or possibly start with steel braided lines, but that will be this winter.

I also still think im going to do front air ducts next week since I have a bunch of down time planned.

End of the day, new rear caliper was $112 from Ford, and I gave my buddy $20 for letting me use his lift and flush my brakes. lol

 

[DJE624]

What are these front air ducts you refer to? Please.

 

[SoCalSHO]

Wondering if the new Police Interceptor has brake ducts like the old 9C1 (Chevy) police cars did? Could be a cool, cheap, easy mod.

Glad to hear your brakes are better.

 

[Kolk1]

Brake ducts you can make yourself pretty cheap depending on what you have laying around.

Only item I may need to buy is some plastic tubing. Then you make a bracket, and attach it to the inside of the rotor to direct fresh air into the center of the Hat part of the rotor so the inside veins have cool outside air.

Basically take a piece of metal tube, and bolt it to the caliper so it directs air to the center of the rotor, then attach the hose and run it either to the front bumper/grill, or still by the suspension, but just slightly lower than air shield we have under the engine so its in the path of direct air flow. Ill probably also put a piece of mesh grill over the inlet so just in case rocks and other larger debris doesnt get thrown into the center of the rotor. lol

This is a real kit you can buy online, buy will give you an idea of where the air is supposed to be directed.

 

[DJE624]

That's pretty cool!

 

[bpd1151]

That corrugated tubing shown in the image, I believe is actually (and literally) referred to as "brake duct tubing".

The orange color indicates it's temperature resistance, and I believe from my own research into using this same tubing for the ducting on my new custom fab'd CAI set up, the orange has the highest temperature resistance at something like in excess of 300 degrees (farenheit).

Of course, the higher the temperature rating, the higher the price point.

The ducting I purchased (for my 3rd source of fresh air on my CAI) is black in color, and was good for temps up to 250 from recollection.

It is pretty cool stuff for sure.

Kolk..... out of curiosity, how are you keeping the tubing from getting all wound up in relation to the natural revolutions of the rotor itself?

It kind of looks like the end of the tubing is mated / mounted directly onto the rotor..... :hmmm:

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kolk1]

Ok, so everythings been fine for about 5 months now, besides the fact if I do spirited driving, I can still feel the fronts over heating, but anyway, besides that, no problems.

UNTIL 4 days ago!!! OMG Im so fed up with the brakes on this car. This is a whole new issue I have never even heard of. You know that crunching sound you kinda get after its been raining and the rotors are all dirty? Well its been dry for awhile now, and im getting some really bad crunching sounds randomly. Maybe 2-3 out of 10 times.

Thursday im going to pull the fronts off and do some investigating.

Quick question, Im currently running Stoptech slotted rotors with EBC red pads. I cant say I want to spend a ton, but Im looking for the best bang for the buck brake upgrade? Right now, if im doing lets say 100mph, and barley even use the brakes, I can feel them over heat. Ive had cars with smaller brakes I could slam on the brakes at 100+ and they would be just fine.

Whats the best front brake setup for about $750 range? I dont want to spend 2 grand on a big brake kit, but im half tempted to at this point lol But I wont.

 

[Kolk1]

Right now im thinking about buying these rotors:
http://autoplicity.com/products/3468457-ebc_usr7510_brake_rotors_usr_slotted_rotors.aspx

Or these for a little more, but not sure if they are "better" besides costing more:
http://autoplicity.com/products/827273-ebc_gd7510_gd_series_sport_rotor_kit_two_pieces.aspx


And these pads:
http://autoplicity.com/products/4503-ebc_dp41767r_yellowstuff_ultra_high_friction_pad_set.aspx

 

[crash712us]

Sounds like rotors are glazed, plus EBC doesn't recommend using red stuff pads with anyone else rotors. I've been using over 2yrs EBC red stuff pad with their Ultimax rotors and I believe BPD uses also with yellow stuff. The rotors from summit look like Ultimax, just not familiar with how they have them branded. Also EBC has a High carbon rotor above the Ulitmax.

 

[DJE624]

Looks like a pretty cool set up to me.  That's my next project after DP's.

 

[Kolk1]

I just changed the links, to the web site with a lot better pricing.

They have 2 different EBC rotors, One is just a hair more, but not sure how its better.

Yea, I wasnt sure if the EBC pads on Stoptech rotors would be an issue. Thats why this time im looking at doing the whole thing in EBC.

 

[crash712us]

Are just plan to do fronts or all 4? As EBC doesn't  recommend using 2 different brake compound together. And from looking those rotors prices they must be for the rear. But it doesn't say what they are for, as price for front rotors and yellow stuffed pads at ebcrotors.com is over $500

OOOPS! I stand corrected from the listed part no. those are fronts and there $100 bucks cheaper then those list on ebcrotors.com

 

[Kolk1]

I edited the link to the front, Yea, the $155 rotor set was the rear, I just noticed that too. The front pair of the better EBC rotors are like $255, and the yellow pads are $101

Id probably end up doing all 4, just debating on what setup to go with if I have to replace them all again.