Getting +4.5 KR @ WOT only

[will3231]

This is the first vehicle I've ever tuned, so monitoring knock, etc. is all new to me still.

Just purchased Torque Pro the other day and started monitoring the KR and am only getting positive values @ wot - whether from a dig or flooring it @ 40mph. Kept an eye on the AFR to see if it was running lean, but looks like I may be running rich as it dips to 10.4.

Being new to this, I'm not really sure where to start looking for the cause. I'm running the LMS v8 93 tune and have been using only BP 93 octane.

 

[ShoBoat]

This is the first vehicle I've ever tuned, so monitoring knock, etc. is all new to me still.

Just purchased Torque Pro the other day and started monitoring the KR and am only getting positive values @ wot - whether from a dig or flooring it @ 40mph. Kept an eye on the AFR to see if it was running lean, but looks like I may be running rich as it dips to 10.4.

Being new to this, I'm not really sure where to start looking for the cause. I'm running the LMS v8 93 tune and have been using only BP 93 octane.

If it does it always then chances are fuel is the culprit. You may want to try a different gas station. If it does it sometimes and sometimes not. We have found an issue with the knock sensor wires that in my case was causing a miss read or false knock. Does it also pull timing lugging in a high gear at higher boost levels?


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[SHOnUup]

I'd try adding some E/85 and see if that helps. Even if you don't want to run it normally, it could verify bad fuel.

Rich

 

[will3231]

I'd try adding some E/85 and see if that helps. Even if you don't want to run it normally, it could verify bad fuel.

Rich

It looks like the BP in the next town over has E85, how much would you add to a tank? Think I'd noticed around 1 - 1.5 gallons mentioned on other posts.

 

[SHOnUup]

Yup, I went to 1 gallon after winter fuel left....started getting a little KR here and there...went back to 1.5 gallons to 13 gallons and knock is all but gone in all areas. It's rare to pick up any for me at all under any throttle input...get a lift reading but that's it.

I'd really make sure your knock sensors aren't touching the block also, as mentioned above.

Rich

 

[will3231]

This is the first vehicle I've ever tuned, so monitoring knock, etc. is all new to me still.

Just purchased Torque Pro the other day and started monitoring the KR and am only getting positive values @ wot - whether from a dig or flooring it @ 40mph. Kept an eye on the AFR to see if it was running lean, but looks like I may be running rich as it dips to 10.4.

Being new to this, I'm not really sure where to start looking for the cause. I'm running the LMS v8 93 tune and have been using only BP 93 octane.

If it does it always then chances are fuel is the culprit. You may want to try a different gas station. If it does it sometimes and sometimes not. We have found an issue with the knock sensor wires that in my case was causing a miss read or false knock. Does it also pull timing lugging in a high gear at higher boost levels?


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It seems like after I let the vehicle warm up and go wot the first time I'm not getting it. But it seems to happen every time after that. Have only had it out two separate times so far since getting torque, but that was the pattern both times.

 

[ZSHO]

Do you have any codes set? also are you using the original plugs? also try switching to Shell v-power 93 and try to monitor it for any changes. Z

 

[will3231]

I've still got the original plugs gapped to .030 with only about 6k miles on them so far.

Just cable tied the knock sensor and going to take it out to monitor and throw some e85 in it if I still see anything.

Hoping one of the two take care of it.

 

[will3231]

Do you have any codes set? also are you using the original plugs? also try switching to Shell v-power 93 and try to monitor it for any changes. Z

I'm not seeing any codes, so hopefully it's just false knock. It looks like there is a Shell about 12 miles from me, may have to try them if it turns out to be the BP gas here in town.

 

[ZSHO]

I woudnt honestly rely on torque pro for accurate readings,it could be off by a little,when did you install the tune?BTW besides the high KR,are you experiencing any driveability issues. Z

 

[will3231]

I woudnt honestly rely on torque pro for accurate readings,it could be off by a little,when did you install the tune?

I installed the tune back in March, but just purchased Torque Pro recently.

Other than the KR it's driving great and seems to pull hard, noticeably harder after adding the E85 though.

After using a tie on the sensor, it didn't seem to make a difference. However, the E85 did seem to help. I am still getting a +1.5 on wot, but that's much better than the +4 - 4.5 I was getting earlier.

 

[ZSHO]

I woudnt honestly rely on torque pro for accurate readings,it could be off by a little,when did you install the tune?

I installed the tune back in March, but just purchased Torque Pro recently.

Other than the KR it's driving great and seems to pull hard, noticeably harder after adding the E85 though.

After using a tie on the sensor, it didn't seem to make a difference. However, the E85 did seem to help. I am still getting a +1.5 on wot, but that's much better than the +4 - 4.5 I was getting earlier.

It sounds to me that you have been using the same particular gas station since getting the tune,or using only BP gas correct. Z  and plus one for Rich for adding E85 to the mix.

 

[will3231]

Yeah, been using the same station since I purchased the car as it's the only one in town with 93 octane.

 

[ecoboostsho]

I would set up the Learned Octane gauge in Torque and see what it reads. Anything that isn't a -1 means you may have some suspect gas...

 

[will3231]

I would set up the Learned Octane gauge in Torque and see what it reads. Anything that isn't a -1 means you may have some suspect gas...

I added after the 1st day I setup Torque and saw the high KR, but it's been showing -1.00 the entire time. After filling up today and topping off with E85 it hasn't budged, still showing -1.00.

 

[ajpturbo]

Also do not rule out the possibility that the knock sensor is just simply doing it's job. When "tuned" ignition advance is one of the tried and true methods to add power. You basically ride the edge of knock and maximize the octane rating of the fuel.

Among adding boost, your tune slightly advanced ignition and leaned out fuel mixtures.

Your tuner could pull 15 degrees of timing out and assure you will never have any amount of knock retard but then power would be down...

Think of this way, if you see a knock sensor reading of 0 all the time you could be leaving some power on the table.

There may be nothing wrong with your fuel at all...Your tune could have a little extra ignition advance in some areas and the tuner is relying on the knock sensors to do their job and pull it out when it sees fit.

If you were to pull the timing out of the base tables and the knock sensors didn't have to pull it out you still end up at the same place

If you are always searching for 0 KR you may never be satisfied.

Or if you KR is always at 4-5 your spark curve may need some work in your tune.

I think some people here automatically assume that any amount of KR is bad...Sometimes it can be and sometimes the sensor is just doing it's job.

 

[SHOdded]

I added after the 1st day I setup Torque and saw the high KR, but it's been showing -1.00 the entire time. After filling up today and topping off with E85 it hasn't budged, still showing -1.00.

My initial thought was that changes to PCM programming in the 13+ might cause issues with the gauge.  But since FoMoCoSHO has confirmed the LOR gauge works on his '15, and it does move around after fillup, there is something else going on here, probably to do with Torque Pro setup.  Maybe an extra space in the equation somewhere?

What are the monitoring intervals you are using (I use 0.1 second)?  How many parameters and on what OBD adapter (more than 20 on a generic ELM device is NOT recommended)?

Equipment possibilities (as already referred to above):  Fuel pump (LPFP/HPFP, monitor fuel pressures), fuel control module, spark plugs (cracked insulator, leaking valve cover, etc), PCV blowby (when was oil last changed/with what), oil in intercooler.

 

[SHOnUup]

Any less knock with the corn?



Rich

 

[ZSHO]

X2,So many variables to take into consideration,would just keep monitoring it on frequent intervals,like SHOdded mentioned a good obd port scanner such as proscan is highly recommended for more sufficient overall readings,it is also important to make sure that the trans is at normal running temp before performing any wot runs,or it will emit high KR(knock retard)readings,you can always revert back to stock tune to monitor for any changes,did you install the 160 stat at the same time as the tune?good luck and keep us updated.  Z

 

[will3231]

Since adding the corn I've only been seeing readings of up to +1.5 here and there and not every time I go WOT. I'm much more comfortable with that than the consistent +4 on every WOT.

Thanks everyone for all the help, it's greatly appreciated.