Meth kit decision questions

[SuperPete]

So I spend few days reading all the forum posts I can and watching all youtube I can find about meth kits.

2014 taurus SHO

Decided to go with ALKY
Debating between under the hood one gallon reservoir or the 2 or 3 gallon trunk install.
It gets hot here, I am afraid I get lots of vapors and fumes in the trunk from expending of the liquid, can anyone with trunk install comment on that concern?

FailSafe, do I really need some kind of failsafe controller like the SNOW Controller, or just watch the lights and hope for best?

Thank you all

 

[TopherSho]

Now that we have adaptive E30 E40 tunes from some vendors, and insanely stable static E30 tunes from others I would strongly advise not going meth.  If you were on the 2010-2012 gen meth is awesome since we lack proper flex fuel parts... But for 2013+ running a basic E30 tune will yield more power with less reliance on external systems and external fail-safes ..  it will just be less parts to plan and maintain and possibly fail.  If you have good e85 stations I'd go E30-E40. 

Cheers! 

 

[SuperPete]

Copy that
For months I been debating on E30 or even full E85 vs Meth

I live in the middle of nowhere, only one E85 station I have is 10 miles away, thats about it, if I run out of gas running around town I am screwed, I absolutely agree with you that E30 is more reliable and headache free but not in my case.

 

[802SHO]

Pushing 3 years with meth, no meth problem whatsoever other than needing more.  I go through 5 gallons a year and that's giving it the business ....countless pulls....just one gallon really is plenty.  You will never run low in one day...no f way.  I'll fill up before going to the track and I might use half a gallon there tops.  You don't get into 7-8psi boost driving you don't even spray any. 

Can't go wrong with Alky.  Got an E85 station?  Go E30 and meth! 

I'm addicted so you'll never hear me say don't do it!  In all seriousness....one of the best all time mods on my car...hands down. 

 

[SuperPete]

10-4

what you do for failsafe?

 

[TopherSho]

Copy that
For months I been debating on E30 or even full E85 vs Meth

I live in the middle of nowhere, only one E85 station I have is 10 miles away, that's about it, if I run out of gas running around town I am screwed, I absolutely agree with you that E30 is more reliable and headache free but not in my case.

With the lack of easy to find e85 Meth will be your go to then unless you build a really tame e-tune that can run lower spark when your out of range of purchase .  Alky is the **best**,  Several members have solid kits and work with the staff directly when hiccups occur.  planning ahead is your best bet.

always have a spare set of plugs, meth eats them faster.  my sp542's last about 15,000 miles and then need replaced.
have/keep a spare pump handy.  mine has not failed..  but i hate waiting for replacement anything
plan on pump rebuild/replacement every couple of years
have replacement meth elbows if they are not 'solid',  mine last about a year and then leak (devils own, Snow, some rando-brand from a local pneumatic shop)
Find a race shop and buy 'local branded' cans of meth.  its cheaper,  i pay 23.95 for 5 gallons of pure meth versus 38 for cans of branded M1.

IMO I did not want to pull off my bumper to work on the meth system,  so I went trunk mount.  I wish I had a 2 gallon tank or larger so I recommend 2+ on the tank. But trunk mounts introduce resistance and reduce the pressure a smidge. 

When you get your tuner on board let them dictate the nozzel size,  no much meth is not 'bad' but it is a waste and can lead to washing issues if the onset is to low.

 

[SuperPete]

WOW, so if spark plugs are eaten in 15K, what about all other internals, pistons, rings, manifold, CAT's and all of that?

 

[802SHO]

10-4

what you do for failsafe?

For a fail safe?  My car is tuned to be reliant on meth.  So I'm the FailSafe!  My gain knob is mounted in plain sight and illuminates red....one sign would be if it wasn't illuminated (no power) that would be a problem.  The low tank sensor will let you know when you're low, flashing red is when it's sloshing around as you get on it, I've never let it get to a solid red before refilling.  Its Alky Control...so you have top of the line parts.  No matter what replace the pump after 2 years.  Even if you installed the pump and filled with meth and didn't run the car for two years you should replace the pump, and I'm talking 100% meth here no water/meth mix. 

Plus I installed it myself so I don't have one sec of doubt about any connection.  As far as spark plugs I change mine every year anyway.  The engine internals are fine, had my oil tested its fine. 

Also, I can monitor knock while driving if I feel I need to as well as do a datalog. 

 

[SuperPete]

Ok, got it, so you are 100% meth, that makes sense.
Appreciate all of you input, very helpful!

SO just hypothetically speaking, what happened if you punch it, meth kicked in BUT your nozzle gets clogged and nothing spraying in?

 

[802SHO]

I'd have a better chance of being struck by lightning but just for the sake of your hypothetical question, my knock sensors would perk their little ears and pull timing, maybe even go into limp mode before something serious would ever happen.  So that something would need to pass through my in line filter and clog my nozzle...but I have two, a M5 nozzle and a M10 nozzle.  I'm ten times more likely to have a catastrophic failure from the raw power of the stock motor and the stock internals not holding up than a Meth malfunction. 

 

[SuperPete]

Thanks

Ok, it's settled, ALKY it is, what kit do I need?: https://www.alkycontrol.com/shop

and about nozzle location, I searched the forum up and down, I understand that noble needs to be as far away from trouble body as possibly 6-12" so it can mix in and cool mixture properly, I can't find any good photos of where other members and how they installed nozzles, with stock SHO pipe, plastic stop few inches away from TB and rubber pipe starts, drilling in to that or I need to replace for full metal pipe?
Thank you

 

[TopherSho]

WOW, so if spark plugs are eaten in 15K, what about all other internals, pistons, rings, manifold, CAT's and all of that?

If your onset is too low and you have high flow, you WILL wash the cylinder walls and wear them faster. IMO <read again MY opinion> setting meth onset under 8 pounds brings extra risk .. on race days its not really a issue because i'm not lugging the motor and pouring meth into the intake at low rpm, i'm running wide open and gaming rpm extremely fast with a hot engine.  when your not racing having low onset and low rpm  with high flow it is high risk if it is not evaporating fast enough.  classic example is running on cruise control and driving up a 15'-20' gradient.  you wont downshift,  your rpm will be sub 2000 and you will hit 7-9 pounds and trigger the pump... if you run that way for too long you will end up with liquid meth making it to the cylinders. if you have really high flow you will have liquid on the caps and its game over in a short amount of time.

Another thing for meth .. avoid manual shifting when racing.  If your pumping a bunch of meth and hit the fuel cut off/rpm cut off you can put in enough meth volume and pop the rings.

the rest of the engine is fine as long as you are not dropping liquid meth into the cylinders. 

 

[802SHO]

It has to be cheaper per Alky Control's website but I purchased my kit from Livernois Motorsports.  Here is a list of everything in their kit.  You can use this list to order everything from Alky instead.  You can use your Windshield washer reservoir as your 1 gallon tank and one of the small tanks your new Windshield washer tank....or buy Alkys 1 gallon....or trunk tank, etc and leave your Windshield washer tank alone.

Livernois' kit came with a M15 nozzle....you would be totally fine with a M10 nozzle.  I can share a pic of where I drilled mine. 

 

[TopherSho]

Ok, got it, so you are 100% meth, that makes sense.
Appreciate all of you input, very helpful!

SO just hypothetically speaking, what happened if you punch it, meth kicked in BUT your nozzle gets clogged and nothing spraying in?

there is a limit where you get 'bad knock' on flow failure and just regular 'oh ****' knock .. I'm on a mild 100% meth tune,  I pull about 27' timing on meth with 14.5 boost.  if i have a flow issue it is fairly safe and pulls back to 22-23' timing where it runs on the non-meth tune i have..if i keep hitting it I will fail the motor (rings) obviously,  but for me a brief meth failure results in 4' degrees of over timing.. totally survivable if im not a derp wagon.

But if you are balls out running higher timing and pushing more boost you can cut the engine life and have bad knock start damaging parts.  wont be a instant failure unless you punch the rings...  but it will reduce endurance and shorten the lifespan of the crank,  rods and rings.

 

[802SHO]

My spark is capped to 18-20 on 19 psi so overall that's fairly tame for what it is. 

 

[SuperPete]

I am going with 50/50 meth mix, what nozzle do I need for that?

 

[TopherSho]

I am going with 50/50 meth mix, what nozzle do I need for that?

**with the stock turbos** That will be both tuner ( the person) and PSI dependent.  I'm pushing about 600ml .. but it is verging on too much in colder temps so i offset by upping the boost onset. 

Most kits come with some variation of a #3 nozzel (175-225ml) and those kits recommend 225-250 psi from the pump.  as someone who has been through a number of nozzles the final nozzle choice is a preference that will be based on the tuning results.    You could buy what ever the next ''step up nozzle'' is from the one that comes with the kit if you want to pre-buy ... but i'd recommend getting a full tune finalized 1st on the initial nozzle so you can guage with your tuner the next best step up if one is required.

If you go under the hood for the kit,  you will not need as big a nozzle since you will have less resistance to push through to get the best atomization and evap rates.  So don't get too tied up into the thinking that nozzle size is key .. its all about atomization efficiency 1st, then volume delivery.

lots of big fat drops evaping 'cool' less than lots of small drops evaping. 

If you have enough evap to drop the intake temps sub 100 you get to keep ALL your spark in WoT in a run or a race.. 1st-not loosing that spark to temp from the IAT2 sensor is huge in drag races and recovering power on hot days.  2-the knock impedance and the gains in octane are a distant second,  but still important and will let you add some spark over the top.

 

[StinkinLinkin13]

Pushing 3 years with meth, no meth problem whatsoever other than needing more.  I go through 5 gallons a year and that's giving it the business ....countless pulls....just one gallon really is plenty.  You will never run low in one day...no f way.  I'll fill up before going to the track and I might use half a gallon there tops.  You don't get into 7-8psi boost driving you don't even spray any. 

Can't go wrong with Alky.  Got an E85 station?  Go E30 and meth! 

I'm addicted so you'll never hear me say don't do it!  In all seriousness....one of the best all time mods on my car...hands down.

5 gallons a year? I've been through almost 10 gallons and I thought I was doing pretty well... It's been about 7-8 months for me. I have it come on pretty late/high boost but demand is pretty high since I'm dependent and supplementing fuel at the top end.

 

[TopherSho]

Baaahaahah ... I have 4 empty cans in my side yard from just this year. 

 

[802SHO]

Let me clarify...5 gallons (1 pale) a year.  Mayyybbeeee 2,000 miles driven!  Lol!  It's parked... Then WOT.  It rarely gets driven... and even rare for me to take it easy.