P0016 code, But cam positions in range.

[Pinball-Mark]

Hey Guys. I have a 2014 Taurus SHO non P/P and has 78000miles on it. Been getting the P0016 code, which I know is likely from a stretched timing chain. I followed the TSB for the F150 and mapped out the VCT_INT_ACT1 on FORscan to confirm that the chain is stretched and I am getting 1.13 degrees at idle which is below the limit of 6 degrees for timing chain replacement. So I then mapped out the Bank1 intake and Bank2 intake vs desired on my SCT live wire dash mount and its showing the bank1 to be 1.12 degrees above desired 0 degrees at idle, which I don't think is too bad. But one morning on cold start, was about 40 degrees F out, the timing on both banks shot right up and stayed while I was driving was getting 10.8 on bank1 and 6.6 degrees on bank2 at idle. I cycled the ignition and everything went back to normal. I would assume stretched timing chain would put the timing out on a constant basis instead of intermittently. Could this be a sensor issue, VTC solenoid, cam phasor or am I over looking this and its a stretched chain? Thanks

 

[Pinball-Mark]

So the positions have been off a couple times this week on cold start. Been able to get the position to line back out to desired by shutting car off and back on then they line out a few seconds after. I'm trying to figure out if the chain is the culprit or an issue with the VCT solenoid or something else. I was planning on disconnecting the solenoids to see if the issues persist to rule out chain stretch, is there any issues in doing this? I'm assuming if the chain is stretched the cam positions would be out at all times.

 

[SHOdded]

you are definitely dealing with a timing chain issue, and it is probably stretched. or the tensioner is failing. have seen many tensioners give up the ghost first, then everything else follows suit. the only other reason the code might pop is if pins are loose in the vct solenoid connectors. since the issue seems to have progressed, the old culprit of timing chain/water pump/etc is the most likely here.

what is the coolant/oil maintenance history? lots of short-tripping?

 

[Pinball-Mark]

Oil is usually changed as per Dealer recommended, every 4 months I believe. Coolant has been flushed twice. What should i be doing on these motors? ILots of trips to work, which is 15 miles each way. I figure it was maybe the tensioner since its only showing signs of "stetch" when i start it. Id assume any degree above 0 would be a timing issue. I attached two videos, first one is after start with the cam positions above zero degrees. You can see them match up well with throtle, but as soon as the throttle is let off you can see the cam positions pop up above 0 degrees. 2nd video is after cam positions lined out to desired during idle, About 5 seconds after the end of the first video. All about a running time of less than 5 min.

 

[SHOdded]

tried to view the videos on desktop but could not expand them, sorry

you have to put the vct advance errors in context. the cam angles (VCTADV and VCTADV2) are of secondary importance. since this is is a computer controlled engine, we need to compare pcm commanded/expected vs actual, which shows up in the error PIDs.  being mechanical systems, we cannot expect errors to be zero'd out all the time. they will be higher on cold starts  and come down as the engine warms up. that same interval will be of shorter duration on warm starts.

i would say 0.25 degrees of error is normal on a cold startup for a well running engine. it may approach 0 as the engine reaches operating temp and constant load conditions.


                                                      M                                                                          Measured/PID Values
Actuators/Outputs  PCM Pin/PID only  KOEO  Hot Idle  48 KM/H (30 MPH)  89 KM/H (55 MPH) Units Measured/PID 
VCTADVERR          PID                    0        0.37      -0.93                      0.18                        DEG 
VCTADVERR2        PID                      0        0.06      -0.93                      -0.06                        DEG 

 

[Pinball-Mark]

Yea looked like i used the wrong video anyway. I was trying to show the intake cam position vs desired. At the time of recording from cold start, the bank 1 was about +12 degrees above desired. This seem quite hight too me. I havnt been able to map the PID VCT_INT_ACT1 that is mentioned in the TSB because the issues is very random. I currently have variable valve timing intake bank0 and bank1 and intake cam position desired mapped, all in degrees on my SCT. This is where im seeing these intermittent large descempicies on start. Anyways, Im having the timing chain done next weekend. I just dont get the randomness of the large offsets, which go away within minutes. Almost seems like a bad chain tensioner as well. We will find out in time i guess once the chain has been repaired

 

[SHOdded]

still not seeing the adverr values. but i checked my logs for our 2007 edge, and on cold startup or warm, vct advance should pretty much be 0. as you get moving, you will see vct advance values rise and fall significantly as you accelerate and decelerate.

again it is the error values / deviation from desired that are significant. so from the pics posted, the errors are 12.5 and 7.5 degrees? that is significant deviation, and since in a previous incident you were able to cycle the ignition to get it to behave, could very well be caused by the solenoids, wiring, or pcm.

there have been previous reports of wiring pins being loose in the solenoid connectors, so a good place to start. then check the resistance between the solenoid harness and the corresponding pins on the pcm. might be a short in there somewhere. clean and grease the pcm pins.  and check battery voltage / cold cranking amps.

i am sure the manual provides a more thorough step by step for checking wiring issues, if the tips above do not work, time to go full out.


there have been tsbs for later MYs for other model lines saying codes pop when dirt gets into the solenoids, and is fixed by cycling them 10 times iirc. have not heard it in the SHO context tho.