Question about Livernois tune

K

karmapolice1111

New member
It seems like the names of their tunes are always changing! My question is can I run straight 93 octane with my 93 Stage 4 plus x race tune? I've heard that you can run it with just 93, but some guys add in a little unleaded race fuel or some E85. Does anyone know for sure if just 93 will be ok?

Thanks,

Jake
 
Depends on how good your 93 gas is....

I have excellent gas (ask my wife..) so I was able to run their 4+X without any knock retard... ever... I actually called them because I thought something was wrong... they were as surprised as I was..

Others have serious knock retard issues with their 93 octane gas...

LMS states that their 4+X race tune should be mixed with 100 octane rac gas...

Some throw a couple gallons of E85 into the tank which will also suppress any knock retard...

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the reply! I'm going to start visiting this forum more. I usually stick to the MKS forum,but this community seems much more active.

Happy ecoboosting! 😎
 
4+X REQUIRES 93 octane fuel, and it is fine to run 93 E10 blend, which is what LME built the tune for.  That blend is almost universally what is found at US gas pumps now.

But as SBS said, fuel quality varies greatly.  You will have to check around to see which brand and/or which station works best for you.  I try at least for Top Tier fuel, and if not possible, a very busy gas station so the fuel doesn't get stale sitting there.  http://toptiergas.com

The RACE tune, yeah you need more octane as the name implies.  Since ethanol is significantly higher octane than gasoline, blending in some E85 will get you there.  Don't add too much E85 though.  You WILL need your MKS tuned for E85 if you do that, as ethanol is lower energy, has a different stoich, and different burn characteristics than gasoline.  I think E15 is where it starts to make an impact.
 
I'm confused even more now. Anthony from LME already gave me the tune and said I could mix in race gas or E85..Unless I'm missing something, (which wouldn't surprise me lol) why would I need a new tune? He said either a few gallons or race gas or a 16 to 18% mix of E85. I wish I could just find some unleaded race gas and not even mess with E85!
 
Depends on what he sent you....

There is 4+x and 4+x race...

Honestly I cannot tell much difference between the too... same advance and boost... the race tune "might" have a smidge firmer shifts.. and the fans run on high all the time....

Either way... a splash of E85 will help... no worries.

 
Did Anthony specify the max amount of E85 that could be mixed in when running the race tune?  If he did not, follow the advice SBS (and his compatriots using E85) provide.  They have a good handle on this stuff in real world applications.

Sorry if I confused you, I was trying to round out the fuel picture in general, not knowing your background/awareness on the topic :)  Feel free to ignore what I say if it helps any LOL.

As far as unleaded race gas, VP Fuels or Sunoco Race Gas etc.should be available from local speed shops.  I would call around and ask.  I would think Indiana has good availability.
 
It's ok its not your fault. I appreciate all of your help. You would think Indiana would have a lot of race fuel, but nothing really close to me. I'm in southern Indiana and it seems like all of the good stuff is up north around Indy. I found one high octane fuel in the city that I work in and it's 110, but it's leaded. To stealbluesho he sent me both tunes. I'm running the non-race tune right now on sunoco 93 and it's great, but I want to try out the race version of that tune. The E85 won't hurt my fuel pump? I've heard it might, but I have no idea. I have a little over of 3/4's of a tank of sunoco 93..Maybe throw in a gallon or a half gallon of E85?
 
I would say SHOdded is Spot on!!. I would load the Race Tune for Track purposes only using 100 octane Racing Fuel such as VP Racing MS-109 which can be found at your nearby Speed Shop,especially if your limited to Race fuel and not comfortable mixing E85 into the mix. Z
 
I think you both are right. I'll just stick with my gut and wait for some real gas. Beautiful car btw, Z. I love this forum! I'm fairly new to the ecoboost thing. I used to really be into cars when I was younger, but mainly just ford 302's and windsors. My dad built race engines and was a bit of a purist. Carbed v8's only. lol I stopped after he died and just got back into the scene. Hell, I didn't even know Ford made the ecoboost until about 6 months ago! lol
 
MKSecobeast said:
I think you both are right. I'll just stick with my gut and wait for some real gas. Beautiful car btw, Z. I love this forum! I'm fairly new to the ecoboost thing. I used to really be into cars when I was younger, but mainly just ford 302's and windsors. My dad built race engines and was a bit of a purist. Carbed v8's only. lol I stopped after he died and just got back into the scene. Hell, I didn't even know Ford made the ecoboost until about 6 months ago! lol
Click to expand...
Thanks Jake, and Welcome aboard. Z :)
 
I had a 2010 MKS with both the 4+X and 4+X RACE tunes.  I ran them both at the track.  I have also tried a few gallons of 102 octane race fuel as well as a bit of E85 mixture.  My experience may be different that others but I found the RACE tune to offer NO quicker times than the regular 4+X when using the same fuel.

The only benefit was that the car stayed a tiny bit cooler while waiting in line to stage because the fans ran on high constantly.  I also think the fans running on high caused the alternator to work harder and actually put more load on the engine.  I found the race tune to be totally unacceptable for street use with the fans screaming and sounding like a helicopter was under the hood. 

I was at Rock Falls raceway on a nice cool morning for a test session and was running around 12.75 with the race tune.  Just for an experiment, I flashed the car back to the regular 4+X and ran a 12.68.    On that occasion, I was running around 7 gallons of 93 mixed with 3 gallons of 102.  It is possible that the race tune would have been better with 100% of the 102 but I never tried that. 

Your experience may be totally different than mine.
 
Thanks Bruce. Now I've got you helping me on both forums! I've got it made now. lol This is lincolnconvert13 from the MKS forum. You might have already realized that though?
 
MKSecobeast said:
Thanks Bruce. Now I've got you helping me on both forums! I've got it made now. lol This is lincolnconvert13 from the MKS forum. You might have already realized that though?
Click to expand...

Yep,  I knew it was you.  Glad you are here.  That MKS forum is not exactly a whirlwind of activity.
 
After all of the info I've read about the race tune, I'm not going to use it now. So, you sometimes run higher octane fuel mixed with 93 on your 4 plus x tune, Bruce? I was thinking about trying that today.

Does anyone else routinely mix a little race gas with 93 on a 4 plus x tune? If so, do you notice any improvements?
 
Not all cars are the same so you will want to experiment.  I could run 12.8s consistently on just plain 93 which contains 10% ethanol.  My personal best of 12.68 was with a mixture but it was also on a cool morning with better air.  I suspect the conditions had more to do with the better time than the fuel.

Many guys swear by adding some E85 and they have timeslips proving that it helps.  I couldn't make it work for me but it never hurts to try.  Do NOT overdo it, though. 
 
Brucelinc said:
Not all cars are the same so you will want to experiment.  I could run 12.8s consistently on just plain 93 which contains 10% ethanol.  My personal best of 12.68 was with a mixture but it was also on a cool morning with better air.  I suspect the conditions had more to do with the better time than the fuel.

Many guys swear by adding some E85 and they have timeslips proving that it helps.  I couldn't make it work for me but it never hurts to try.  Do NOT overdo it, though.
Click to expand...

^ this...  the prevailing conditions are very impactful to the performance of these cars.

As AJP has educated me on, the IAT2 sensor on the top of the intake manifold is your new best friend and hated enemy.  It's temp reading controls your spark/advance tables,  as the temp of that sensor (and others) go higher the more timing it will pull.  And for these cars that retardation will greatly lower your 1/4 mile times and 0-70pmh times. 

These cars are sedans and not configured to lose heat that easily in favor of quite smooth operation. 

you will have to experiment to find out more, but as mentioned mixing e85 is both good and bad and may have differing impacts. 

the STOIC for e85 (depending on the ACTUAL real ethanol content of the e85 bought) is 9.xx,  regular gas is 14.7x,  this greatly changes the characteristic of the burn, (flame-front).  so your 'burn' is less efficient the more e85 you add.  BUT if the octane increase offset the HYPER Aggressive timing on the race tune then it may be a net gain anyways. 

thing being with the MYCAL,  you should be able to get a better higher ethonal count tune and flip between them on race day..
 
AJP turbo said:
The problem though, correct me if I'm wrong, is I don't think LMS supports the use of E85 to your fuel mix
Click to expand...


Correct, they will not tune for e85 on the SHO. You can add a couple gallons to your tank with their tunes and be fine. I have datalogs showing good fuel pressure doing just that.

Besides, it's your job to tune us corn fed guys...
 
If you are not getting any KR with their tunes, I might argue there is no real world benefit to a couple gallons of E85 with their tunes....

If you ARE getting a small amount of KR then a couple gallons of corn makes a difference.
 
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