The self-tuning thread

[4DRHTRD]

I'm going to start this thread as I'm starting to tune my own car and wanted to share what I'm doing and seeing if anybody else can add as well.


We started playing with the various tables for a couple of hours tonight, attempting to modify torque maxes. We haven't found it yet but we'll keep messing with it, it will probably take a few days. I wish there was a canned tune we could use as a base and go from there as there's SO MANY tables!!!

I'll report back as I know more!

BTW, my whole issues with map sensor slope/intercept we were trying and the car not starting was actually we had changed the traction control setting to 0 (from 35) and the car was pissed and wouldn't start. We started over with a stock tune and only added the 3 bar and then luckily the car started so we could begin the tuning fun.

 

[05yellowgt]

I'm assuming the only option for us mere mortals to tune with is SCT PRP?  I reached out to a buddy of mine that just started working for HPTuners.  They are currently working hard on getting full support for 05-14 Mustangs, but may be interested in working on the Ecoboost platforms at a later date.  If they do, I want to work with him to get the software working.

 

[4DRHTRD]

Yes, you'll have to buy the Full Racer Package, somebody on the forum did it but then they disappeared and I didn't hear from them again.

 

[05yellowgt]

I've been a loyal SCT user for years and even worked part time for a buddy at his shop and have tuned many vehicles, including my own using it.  I am going to hold out to see what HPTuners comes out with as their pricing and flexibility when it comes to being able to tune multiple vehicles is very appealing.

 

[05yellowgt]

Oh, I wanted to ask if you know what level of access you have with the PRP package?  I know that with the 05+ mustangs, unless you had an in with SCT or went through their training, you couldn't access some of the more advanced tables (drive by wire throttle programming).  I wonder if this is the case with the Ecoboost ECUs.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Wouldn't it be nice if HP tuners would work with us... Know they have so far resisted.  I too am interested as I have 2 G8's and have 2 son's with 3 LS engined cars plus another one on the way.  Perhaps once they do the Mustangs, they will look at EB platform(s) due to the large volume of F-150's.

 

[05yellowgt]

That is my hope and with the Ecoboost coming to the Mustang in 2015, it may help open the door for the rest of us as far as HPTuners is concerned.

 

[TouchOfEvil]

This is my first Ford and as such i have no exp tuning them. I come from a long line of Chevy and hptuners. Which gets used often, lol.

 

[metroplex]

I know this thread is old, but HPTuners finally added most of the tables for the 2013-up SHO and 2011-2014 F-150's around mid July 2016. My 2014 SHO is now tuned using HPTuners and pulls 16+ psi across redline w/ 87 octane, stock airbox with dirty paper filter, and there aren't any fueling errors. The maximum inferred air massflow is about 50.1 lb/min and using Garrett's formula for estimating horsepower based on massflow, that's roughly 474 hp.

I haven't looked at SCT for the SHO, but I heard there's more than 1 driver demand table. HPTuners is working to add the driver demand table (for terrain??) which is what Sport mode uses. Without changing that table, shifting into Sport mode causes the car to go back to stock boost levels.

Other than that, HPT looks like it is good to go for 2013-up SHO's. They were still working on 2010-2012 SHOs, and 2015-up F-150/Mustangs. They support all of these vehicles, but there are missing tables.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Got any logs?

 

[metroplex]

I like the graph features on HPTuners. In any case, the ECU figures out the WGDC, throttle opening, etc... and as you can see it was holding 16+ psi at 6000 RPM right before the upshift. I'm logging a lot of PIDs, so I noticed that there's a delay in some of the graphs with the actual data.

While experimenting, I found that I could force the throttle open (with the custom WOT start/stop values) but this just causes the WGDC to drop big time, and the boost will start at say 16-18 psi and then drops to 10-12 psi at the revlimiter.

How well does it run at 0.85 lambda? I was experimenting with this as well and couldn't find much data from anyone other than dyno sheets for F-150's w/ the 3.5 EB and they seemed to be running 0.85 lambda with 87 and 93 octane. I tried 0.76 lambda once and ran into fueling issues, but 0.79 was fine and at the verge of running below 1200 psi. 0.82 gives me solid fuel pressure, and I'm thinking 0.85 might be better and I run that lambda with the GM LNF (GTDI at 22+ psi boost).

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I like the graph features on HPTuners. In any case, the ECU figures out the WGDC, throttle opening, etc... and as you can see it was holding 16+ psi at 6000 RPM right before the upshift. I'm logging a lot of PIDs, so I noticed that there's a delay in some of the graphs with the actual data.

While experimenting, I found that I could force the throttle open (with the custom WOT start/stop values) but this just causes the WGDC to drop big time, and the boost will start at say 16-18 psi and then drops to 10-12 psi at the revlimiter.

How well does it run at 0.85 lambda? I was experimenting with this as well and couldn't find much data from anyone other than dyno sheets for F-150's w/ the 3.5 EB and they seemed to be running 0.85 lambda with 87 and 93 octane.

16-17 PSI and I think 22-23 degrees available timing w/o knock so far.

Tons of rail pressure

 

[ajpturbo]

I like the graph features on HPTuners. In any case, the ECU figures out the WGDC, throttle opening, etc... and as you can see it was holding 16+ psi at 6000 RPM right before the upshift. I'm logging a lot of PIDs, so I noticed that there's a delay in some of the graphs with the actual data.

While experimenting, I found that I could force the throttle open (with the custom WOT start/stop values) but this just causes the WGDC to drop big time, and the boost will start at say 16-18 psi and then drops to 10-12 psi at the revlimiter.

You can hold just about any boost you want.

Forcing WOP does not cause the wastegate duty cycle to drop AT ALL!...Your decline in boost is purely from your desired TIP being reduced...You need to find out why that is happening.

 

[ajpturbo]

I know this thread is old, but HPTuners finally added most of the tables for the 2013-up SHO and 2011-2014 F-150's around mid July 2016. My 2014 SHO is now tuned using HPTuners and pulls 16+ psi across redline w/ 87 octane, stock airbox with dirty paper filter, and there aren't any fueling errors. The maximum inferred air massflow is about 50.1 lb/min and using Garrett's formula for estimating horsepower based on massflow, that's roughly 474 hp.

I haven't looked at SCT for the SHO, but I heard there's more than 1 driver demand table. HPTuners is working to add the driver demand table (for terrain??) which is what Sport mode uses. Without changing that table, shifting into Sport mode causes the car to go back to stock boost levels.

Other than that, HPT looks like it is good to go for 2013-up SHO's. They were still working on 2010-2012 SHOs, and 2015-up F-150/Mustangs. They support all of these vehicles, but there are missing tables.

Metro share some of the hardships that the HP tuning community is facing also...There seem to be a lot of confused people struggling based on what I read

I would not say HP has added MOST of the tables for the SHO. From the screenshots of the software it looks like they are missing hundreds of tables, scalars and functions...The screen menus look so basic and lacking...There are only a few tabs with drop downs...You can literally get lost in the tables in SCT.

So I wouldn't say it's a go lol..They are leaps behind it looks...This is also according to other tuners I know.

Holding 16 psi at redline is not any accomplishment, it's really easy to do if you want and know how.

There are multiple driver demand tables....The terrain table is NOT for sport mode...The Terrain table is the exact same as the regular driver demand table....You are missing other tables with HP

 

[metroplex]

Hey chief, so what's the table for sport mode?
Eric from HPT said that the terrain table is used when switching to sport mode. Talking about a factory stock setup, it makes sense that it would be the same as stock. Why would you get more boost or different boost in sport mode on a factory tune? For my situation, the boost levels are custom in Drive mode but switch to the stock 8-11 psi in Sport mode.

From your dyno post, it seemed like it took you 2 years to get through the SCT tuning process and SCT was missing values early on. So what are some of these important parameters that are missing in HP Tuners? Are you using the latest version? They only added more SHO tables within the past week or so.

As for forcing the throttle open, I don't think it is necessary. With the tables that are currently available in HPTuners (3.20.50), forcing the throttle open causes the WGDC and Desired TIP to drop, resulting in starting at around 18 psi then dropping to 12 psi. I even heard some aftermarket tunes are this way as well but this will only net about 42-43 lb/min inferred air massflow.

When I let the ECU do its thing, the WGDC and desired TIP pretty much stay the same. The only time the throttle closes is during the shifts but it doesn't really affect MAP boost. I looked at your dyno thread and the log you had showed massive TIP spikes during the shifts, and I believe you've always recommended changing the WOT settings.

 

[J-Will]

Metro, keep plugging away man! I'm very excited to hear of your results with HPT.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[ajpturbo]

so what's the table for sport mode?


From your dyno post, it seemed like it took you 2 years to get through the SCT tuning process and SCT was missing values early on. So what are some of these important parameters that are missing in HP Tuners? Are you using the latest version? They only added more SHO tables within the past week or so.

As for forcing the throttle open, I don't think it is necessary. With the tables that are currently available in HPTuners (3.20.50), forcing the throttle open causes the WGDC and Desired TIP to drop, resulting in starting at around 18 psi then dropping to 12 psi. I even heard some aftermarket tunes are this way as well but this will only net about 42-43 lb/min inferred air massflow.

When I let the ECU do its thing, the WGDC and desired TIP pretty much stay the same. The only time the throttle closes is during the shifts but it doesn't really affect MAP boost. I looked at your dyno thread and the log you had showed massive TIP spikes during the shifts, and I believe you've always recommended changing the WOT settings.

I don't know if there is a table for sport mode....I think it's simply a pedal multiplier

When you go to WOT you actually aren't using any of the driver demand tables, it's something different entirely.

Yeah it took me a while, some of my tuning woes were my fault and overlooking some things and some were due to a lack of functionality of software

You absolutely want the throttle open when you go WOT...You don't really want to force the throttle open but it should happen naturally when you floor it right?...When you go WOT that WILL NOT bring down wastegate duty and desired TIP....The wastegate duty dropping is a result of the desired TIP dropping and desired TIP is dropping because you are in a table that I don't know if you have or don't have.

If an aftermarket tune drop boost or desired tip it's because then are not commanding the boost and tq properly.

The massive TIP spikes you mention are when the throttle closes. It's attempting to maintain a certain boost in the manifold, so when you are above that value, the throttle will close to lower MAP and the pressure in the charge piping pre throttle body as measured by the TIP sensor will rise....It has to, the airflow is hitting a wall....The throttle blade.

If you don't use the throttle a little to control boots spikes you will have massive boost spikes in the manifold which is real boost which the car has to try to fuel for which can be a problem...That's why the SHO TIP sensor can read more.

 

[metroplex]

HPT seems to think Driver Demand for Terrain is the DD table for sport mode. Once that's unlocked, I'll give it a try. I am think of detuning normal drive boost levels for fuel economy and then use the boosted table for sport mode.

If you look at my log, I am letting the ECU do the work with the srock 1023 WOP start/stop ad counts. It keeps the throttle open until it shifts. If I set custom WOP start/stop values (which according to HPT it ignores DD and tries to make as much torque as it is limited), it ends up forcing the throttle open the entire time. I found the ECU then cuts WGDC and desired TIP in that situation.

When I didn't change inverse flange temp and hit a limiter, the 1023 WOP settings would cause TIP to go as high as 27 psi but MAP was still stock at 10 psi. With custom WOP settings, it acted stock.

I'm not saying what I'm doing is 100% right but it works and as an engineer, the data makes sense to me. Until more EcoBoost tuners actually share data, I'll have to keep experimenting and trying to learn from others who care to share

 

[ajpturbo]

I'll walk it back and maybe I'm wrong and terrain does control sport mode but I don't think...Maybe I can test it later.

But I do know that once you force WOT, none of the driver demand tables control commanded torque....Which is why I think when you go WOT with your custom WOP pedal settings you go to stock boost.

The reason I don't think terrain driver demand is sport mode because there are other driver demand tables in the SHO tunes that they simply don't use..

I don't fully understand why but there are many tables and scalars that are in the ECU and tune that are NOT active

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'll walk it back and maybe I'm wrong and terrain does control sport mode but I don't think...Maybe I can test it later.

But I do know that once you force WOT, none of the driver demand tables control commanded torque....Which is why I think when you go WOT with your custom WOP pedal settings you go to stock boost.

The reason I don't think terrain driver demand is sport mode because there are other driver demand tables in the SHO tunes that they simply don't use..

I don't fully understand why but there are many tables and scalars that are in the ECU and tune that are NOT active

I'm guessing its because we all (transverse) have the same base tables and scalars from the factory. That makes a lot more sense financially than making maps for every different car/trim, etc.

Terrain sounds like its a setting for the EX sport.