1-2 shudder at WOT

[ajpturbo]

How much is the stock pressure?  Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?

I didn't ask what the pressure was at, just that the shudder goes away and they got it. It's better than stock for sure though. I got my smile back after 3 days of driving around stock.

They may not tell you even if u ask...proprietary lol....kinda like they did in the other thread when someone asked what their fan temp was and lms replied with "pretty close to that" or something along the lines of vague lol.....or they may just tell you just to spite me lol

 

[wasinger3000]

Yeah pretty sure it's psi...I'll look at the units when I get home....wasinger I hate the global modifiers that u can do on the device..I'm not really sure how they are applied to the tune..personally I prefer to change the values in the actual tables but u would need the software and the tune in mtf format which most tuners won't give u anyway..so in ur case ur doing what u can...it's really not cost effective to have the software and pay a tuner for the mtf,assuming he will even give it to u, unless u enjoy tinkering and learning to tune...much cheaper to just buy a tune from lms or torrie

Hopefully Torrie can get mine to stick then. I just did what I could to save Torrie from the extra work.

Since the first few shifts after the reflash are perfect it's just a matter of finding out what that sweet spot is.

 

[wasinger3000]

How much is the stock pressure?  Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?

Stock is about 150-175 I'll look when I get home I can't remember exactly...it doesn't take  a lot to make a noticeable difference...the pressure smoothly increases with the amount of torque commanded and with rpm...so at wot and at 6500 rpm in the table is where the values are highest.

And all the tables for each gear is different...the 2-3 part throttle pressures are way higher than the other gears at part throttle..not sure why ford did that so I lowered mine to what the other gears are and it shifts smoothly after a reflash so the adaptive doesn't have much to learn...also it seems that the higher gears can tolerate more pressure at wot than the 1-2 shift...don't ask me why

I wish I know what it was at now and what the number actually represents. Is it 200 psi? Or just some kind of reresentarive number... I used my x4 to lower it by 25% of what I don't know... it's better still but for some reason after 4 or 5 wot runs the car goes back to the shudder shift. Like it enjoys being stupid...

I asked Torrie to change the shift pressure last night at 2am and I woke up to a new tune haha. Love that service!

So I'll see how it does now.

Hope this tune works to stop your problem...
The problem ajp points out is also complicated by the learning nature of the ECU and other modules... likely why your stutter got better and then the  problem recurred... because the car found a way around your changes to accommodate a parameter left unchanged in the complete tune (i.e. that was not changed with the "global" changes you made). 

Ultimately, it appears to me that those kind of changes are designed to let you try something out... and then have your professional tuner make the changes so they "stick".

It feels just like that. The car finds a way to revert back to the way it wants to operate. Which is great for somethings... just not this.

As tempting as it is, messing with the global modifiers just seemed like a bad idea, LOL....

Torrie needs an e-tip jar.

Seriously, the level of service he provides just make me want to give him money.

Hah. I've offered to pay him more money for all the work but he won't accept it.  :/

 

[Brucelinc]

This shudder anomaly seems sporadic and inconsistent.  When I first got LME's 4X tune last year, the 1-2 shift was pretty gnarly but after some miles and the adaptive learning process, it smoothed out.  Recently, it reared it's ugly head again - but not all the time.  I am not sure what causes the inconsistency - unless it is related to long periods of gentle driving (as we might have in winter weather) followed by some very aggressive WOT runs when the weather clears. 

In any case, I had LME adjust the pressure down and it is now very smooth.  I will have to see how it does over a longer period of time. 

 

[StealBlueSHO]

This shudder anomaly seems sporadic and inconsistent.  When I first got LME's 4X tune last year, the 1-2 shift was pretty gnarly but after some miles and the adaptive learning process, it smoothed out.  Recently, it reared it's ugly head again - but not all the time.  I am not sure what causes the inconsistency - unless it is related to long periods of gentle driving (as we might have in winter weather) followed by some very aggressive WOT runs when the weather clears. 

In any case, I had LME adjust the pressure down and it is now very smooth.  I will have to see how it does over a longer period of time.

Did this resolve your issue? I have the EXACT same problem with the 4X tune... no other tune does this.. I have also received a bit of push back from LMS stating that there are 100's of cars running the 4+x without an issue. I emailed LMS again, asking them to dial back the shift pressure as it seems to have resolved this problem for other users. Still waiting on a response...

I have a hard time with it being sporadic... you sit in the pit waiting awhile for your run, just for this little hiccup to hit while going down the track...

 

[djxfactor]

My Flex CONSISTENTLY does this on a WOT.  I have always attributed this to wheel hop/spin and never had a clue that it could be a transmission shudder from line pressure.  I was convinced it was my tires breaking loose and wreaking havoc on the driveline.  Its like my dash is shaking apart when the 1-2 shift happens and it scares the crap out of me that I'm going to break something.  I'm going to reach out to Torrie to see if he can revise my tune to account for the shudder.  Thank goodness Steal Blue revived this dead thread!!

 

[ajpturbo]

There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it

 

[StealBlueSHO]

There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it

Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...

 

[ajpturbo]

There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it

Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...

I did along the way yes....but things have changed...this i will keep for the time being

 

[djxfactor]

There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it

Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...

I did along the way yes....but things have changed...this i will keep for the time being

Well, crap.  That doesn't help me till I can afford to pay you for your Jedi-tuning skills...

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I am just assuming he already has all the transmission stuff taken care of in the tunes he provided to me...

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Interesting response from LMS....

Basically, they were aware of the transmission stuttering issue in the past and made corrections to the tunes... and re-released the "4+X" as the "4+x race" tune with needed adjustments...

Funny, when I flash the 4+x tune, there is no issues, once the transmission "learns", I start having issues.... Anthony didn't really have a response for that...

He mentioned that since they have never made any adjustments for my strategy and have not written a softer shifting 4+x for my strategy, they are going to have to rewrite the whole thing....

Any how.... fun fun... not sure about my strategy but it continues to give tuners headaches....

I just don't understand why it would only start stuttering after the transmission does its adaptives... it shifts harder while its learning without an issue ...

 

[Brucelinc]

Stealblue, when was the last time you changed your transmission fluid?

When I first experienced the 1-2 shift shudder a couple of years ago, I asked for and received a tune with less trans hydraulic pressure.  That solved the problem but I missed the shift firmness.  I was also puzzled as to why it was great for 15,000 miles or so with the higher pressure and then began the shudder all of a sudden.  I changed my trans fluid and put the original tune back in.  The shudder was gone and the shift firmness was back like I liked it.

Since then, I have changed the fluid annually and never had another shudder - including multiple back-to-back runs at the track. 

Was it the fresh fluid that solved the issue or was it just a freaky fluke?  Maybe just reflashing the tune somehow "fixed" it?  I really have no idea.   

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Stealblue, when was the last time you changed your transmission fluid?

When I first experienced the 1-2 shift shudder a couple of years ago, I asked for and received a tune with less trans hydraulic pressure.  That solved the problem but I missed the shift firmness.  I was also puzzled as to why it was great for 15,000 miles or so with the higher pressure and then began the shudder all of a sudden.  I changed my trans fluid and put the original tune back in.  The shudder was gone and the shift firmness was back like I liked it.

Since then, I have changed the fluid annually and never had another shudder - including multiple back-to-back runs at the track. 

Was it the fresh fluid that solved the issue or was it just a freaky fluke?  Maybe just reflashing the tune somehow "fixed" it?  I really have no idea. 

Good question, I had all the fluids (PTU, Transmission, RDU, and Motor) changed/flushed 3K miles ago.

I just got back from the shop this morning to verify they used to correct TYPE of fluids, which they did. The only concern I have is they used Cam2 full synthetic performance fluids for the tranny and RDU, which is obviously not Motorcraft, I specifically asked for OEM fluids...they informed me that they used OEM equivalent!

I have been using this shop for a long time, the master mechanic is one of my best friends... they got a new manager which I think screwed me? Dunno... not a fan of word smithing to get what you want or imply something that it's not..

http://www.cam2.com/products/Automatic-Transmission-Fluid/CAM2-Dexron-VI-Multi-Vehicle-Full-Synthetic-ATF.html

Googling seems to say it's good stuff..

Even so, I can't image fluid breaking down that bad in 3K miles...


I am tempted to do a drain and fill with motorcraft... although I doubt that will change much..

I have various tunes from LMS, AJP, and Torrie...

The ONLY tune that causes the stutter is the 4+X.... and it's not right away... once the transmission does it's adaptives does it happen... I reflash.... goes away for awhile...

 

[ajpturbo]

Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?

Looking it up, but he product sheet says it's designed for cars that take Mercon LV... along with other low viscosity atf fluid...


http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/7907.pdf

You get my email about the E20 tunes?

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I have no issues getting them to do a fluid swap with Mercon LV if the Cam2 is not OE...

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?

Website claims its low viscosity....

http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/2691.pdf

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Mercon LV Data Sheet -> https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/Product%20Data%20Sheet%20MERCON%20LV.pdf

Cam2 Dextron-VI Full synthetic LV Data Sheet -> http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/7907.pdf


They are within .5% of each other's viscosity ratings...

The only difference would be additives at this point...

 

[ajpturbo]

Ah ok, it's probably good stuff then...I'm just used to the LV fluids showing that on the bottle face....Either LV or fuel efficient. But I see the specs where it says Mercon LV