2010 EB Flex Shudder/Shake

[FaSSt9602]

So my wife's EB Flex has had a VERY intermittent shudder (like months apart) where the car will begin to shake and shudder quite harshly according to my wife and the CEL will flash.  One time the car died on here while doing this, two other times it regained its composure and CEL went away on its own.  Each time, when she gets home, I scan the car with my SCT and no codes appear.  A trip to the dealer reveals the same thing, no stored codes.  The dealer is unable to replicate the issue, therefor doesn't really know what to do or where to start and sends the car home after a couple days.  This time they have retrieved no codes, ran some test that allows them to check for misfires in the past few days and it comes back with zero misfires. 

My wife is getting nervous with the car as she does a fair bit of highway driving and doesn't want to get stuck on the highway when it does this. 

A little history:
At abou 68k the car developed a CEL for excessive blowby.  All new PCV system was installed, new plugs, and after some time it was revealed that a cracked ring land on a piston causing a wedged ring and excessive blowby.  New shortblock installed at that time.  Car now has 93k miles and other than this really random shudder and potential stalling, it has been great. 

 

[SHOdded]

Does the dealer have access to a "flight recorder"?  That's the way to go at this point.  Until then, here's the thoughts I have:

If it's a torque converter, you can monitor trans PIDs that should give you some insight.  Random is hard to catch tho, esp when someone else is driving the vehicle. You have to make sure to log every time.  Forscan should be good enough for this purpose.

If it's a leaky injector, fuel trims will be affected, and you will likely smell some fuel out the exhaust.  Haven't heard of fuel pump issues with the 2010-12, tho.  Pull the plugs to assess condition.  Maybe the gaps have grown too large in the course of 25K miles, more likely if there's a tune on it.  Maybe there weren't enough misfires to set a code, you can run the $06 mode diagnostics to see if misfire counts on any cylinder are positive.  SP534's in there right, not SP528's?

Did the shortblock include turbos?  I am guessing not.  Worth taking a look at their condition.  Also the intercooler.  Check the intake valves for carbon buildup.  Did the O2s transfer over also?  The Bank 2 Sensor 1 is known to go bad the most.

Hoping it's not a faulty PCM issue or a wiring issue.

 

[FaSSt9602]

Can Tourqe monitor these things, or do I need to get Forscan?

How do I look at fuel trims?  An injector is one suspicion of mine.  From time to time I have noticed a somewhat abundant odor.

Shortblock was just that, a shortblock.  No turbos, and my guess would be that they put all O2's and everything back. 

Spark plugs: I will have to check with the dealership as they did the spark plug swap right before the engine was pulled.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Can Tourqe monitor these things, or do I need to get Forscan?

How do I look at fuel trims?  An injector is one suspicion of mine.  From time to time I have noticed a somewhat abundant odor.

Shortblock was just that, a shortblock.  No turbos, and my guess would be that they put all O2's and everything back. 

Spark plugs: I will have to check with the dealership as they did the spark plug swap right before the engine was pulled.

With Torque you can monitor your fuel trims

Short term fuel trim bank one
Long term fuel trim bank one
Short term fuel trim bank two
Long term fuel trim bank two

As far as the trans pids I think you can monitor Torque converter lockup and I think there are some other things, but trans is an area I haven't played with.

Torque can also monitor misfires along with mode 06 and 09 data.

You can monitor your o2 sensors and their voltage as well.

 

[FaSSt9602]

So what is normal?  I am running some tests on FORscan and at idle, my long term fuel trims on bank 1 are consistently 1% hugger than 2. 

Short term fuel trims are dead even on 1 and 2.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Your variations sound normal, what happens when you stand on it?

Have you looked at misfires?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Is she accelerating or just cruising when it happens?

You mentioned it happens on the highway, cruise control on or off?

What fuel does she put in it?

 

[FaSSt9602]

Evert I me it does it she is either coming to a stop or at a stop. It can happen after a long highway drive and stopping at an off ramp,  or just leaving the house and it did it at the end of our street.

Again, this is VERY sporadic.  It happens every couple months only.

And no misfires are being shown.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Try logging vct cam error. Sounds similar to what mine was doing when the pigtail was chafed.

There will always be some degree of error shown fyi.

Take a look at the pigtail on the front cam cover. Iirc Gen 4.1 used shrink tubing but Ford wanted to save .03 on the 2015 so they used some shitty tape applied by Helen Keller. 

 

[FaSSt9602]

So I have been out of town the last couple weeks so I haven't had a chance to do anything with the car, but as expected, the car has been running normal for the wife.  Like I said in the original post, this issue only pops up ever couple months, it will do it once, and it is fine...

Last night I took her car for a drive (not planning on testing) and noticed something odd.  When I was merging onto the freeway, I got on it pretty good, and to my amazement, I look in the rear view mirror and see that I just hazed out the freeway behind me...

I pulled back off the freeway, opened up torque and just had it set to watch long and short term fuel trims (didn't take the time to load up other views).  Did a couple more WOT runs on the way home and what I saw was that at WOT everything BUT Long Term Bank 1 would go to 0% or close to, while LT Bank 1 stayed at about 4%.  Is that odd?  Once cruising for a while, both LT trims would return to "normal", but Bank 1 would stay 2-3% higher than Bank 2. 

Like I said, I didn't watch anything else, so I don't know what AFR was doing or if there was excessive knock detected, but I did check and it was showing any misfires or anything.

So, my concern is the hazing under heavy load.  I don't know if it was a fuel haze, or an oil haze, ie turbo seals.  If it was an issue with the turbo seals, my gut would tell me it would do it under any throttle (at least that's what it did in my diesel truck).  Any ideas on the haze?  I should add the car is stock, and has been since the new shortblock was installed.

I'll do some more testing when I get back from Chicago next week and load up a whole bunch of things on Torque and/or FORscan.  I'll watch fuel trims short and long, AFR, knock counts, knock retard, misfire count, cam VCT errors(not sure if I remember seeing that in either program), anything else I should monitor?

 

[SHOdded]

Maybe Torque Pro can get cam VCT errors, but I think you need custom code for that.  Certainly not a function available for my Edge.  ForScan is better that way, you can log VCTADVERR (in degrees by default) for each bank.  Should not spike to values > 11 per the 2013 OBD Manual pg 128, I normally see no more than 4-6 degree spikes, created by throttle lift or mashing.  When cruising the VCTADVERR stays near ZERO value.

Bank 1 trim values normally run a bit higher than Bank 2, don't know why, design, physical factors ...?  Odd that under WOT Bank 1 LTFT stands out like that ...  Monitoring the "O2"/AF sensors should hold a clue there.

Per the FSM, an oil haze can be created by

• Clogged Air Cleaner (ACL) element
• Incorrect type or grade of oil
• Blocked or restricted turbocharger oil drain pipes
• Damaged/restricted or leaking turbocharger intake tube assembly
• Engine wear (piston rings, valve guides)
• Plugged crankcase ventilation system
• Turbocharger oil seals leaking

 

[FaSSt9602]

Quick Update:

So I have been monitoring a few things when I have the chance to drive the car and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary, but, I have not been able to log when the issue is in full bore. 

My one concern is the amount of oil on the OUTSIDE of the CAC pipe leading up to the TB.  Makes me wonder how much oil is in the IC and/or the rest of the piping system.  Checked the charge pipes coming from the turbos and could see no obvious signs of oil seepage. 

 

[FaSSt9602]

Just did a quick check by disconnecting the top side of the charge pipes.  to be honest, with 100k on the clock, I was expecting to see a bit more oil pooled at these locations.  When I have an chance, I will take it apart further and check the IC.  But I do have some small concerns at this point...anyone notice anything?

First is the "over the engine" pipe coming from the rear turbo.

Here is the boot attached to the TB.

 

[ZSHO]

It looks like the Hose was Loose or possibly ripped. IMO  Z

 

[FaSSt9602]

It looks like the Hose was Loose or possibly ripped. IMO  Z

What makes you say that?  I'm more concerned with what looks to be metal flakes in the charge piping on both sides of the IC...

 

[ZSHO]

It looks like the Hose was Loose or possibly ripped. IMO  Z

What makes you say that?  I'm more concerned with what looks to be metal flakes in the charge piping on both sides of the IC...

The hose looked like it was seated (halfway)on IC and left a ring of oil.

 

[SHOdded]

Can't see the content, Fasst, no access on Google Drive ...

 

[FaSSt9602]

Can't see the content, Fasst, no access on Google Drive ...

Hmmm, they are in a shared album, and posted the way I always post pictures.  I can see them when not logged into my google account... ZSHO was apparently able to see them.

 

[SHOdded]

Visible now, thanks!

 

[FaSSt9602]

Visible now, thanks!

And?  Thoughts?