my 2017 SHO w/PP

[Cobra93]

I sort of figured out how to log in torque.
I have 2 idle to ~beyond 70 mph runs on here.
I hope this shows up okay.

I added custom scripts, then imported .csv file to torque from ecoboostsho from this forum back in '14.

When I connected torque to my car "fast connection was disabled".
I've not had that happen before. Data corruption, fast communication disabled, OBD device may be faulty.

I'll keep researching how to log so I can post some information that is actually helpful.

Both runs had 0-2 psi of boost until the top of first gear, hence the 7.1/ 6.9 0-60 times.


Thanks,  Joe.

 

[SHOdded]

it is possible the pcm is throttling boost until it is satisfied the vehicle will respond. i do not recall what the max oem fuel pressure is (untuned), i will see if i have member logs to verify. curious that there are no fuel pump duty cycle datapoints tho, maybe wrong PID. seems like generic pids for that and knock sensor count? torque pro provides every 100ms resolution capability iirc. what adapter are you using. i highly recommend the obdlink mx+ not a "generic" for these purposes. a tuning device affords 10ms resolution.

one of the reasons that the pcm will throttle is due to torque management kicking in, but since you have not mentioned any wheel slip or tire buckling type feeling, probably not the case.

the system is awd, but it still should not throttle that long. it should switch to fwd mode if the rdu is malfunctioning, and of course it will impact 0-60 times, just not sure how much.

 

[SHOdded]

unfortunately i do not seem to have torque datalogs, so i have attached a datalog from an sct x4 i believe. you can clearly see the pids they are using, need to find similar vehicle specific, not ford generic, pids in torque.

fuel pressures are in MPa, approx 14.5 psi conversion.

 

[Cobra93]

Correct, there is no power or wheel slip.

My obd2 adapter warns of data corruption.
I ordered another, it needs an app to work.
I have another one arriving today and should be able to log something that will actually be useful, I hope.

Iwill try to use the x4 to get a log. I will have to search how to post it. I'm referring to the one Matt sent.
I'll look at the log you posted, thanks.

Thanks. I hope to have some info tomorrow after work.

The other odd thing I have noticed is that half throttle seems strong, lots of torque, but WOT seems like less power. Sounds weird, but that is the case at times.

 

[SHOdded]

one other possibility if the vehicle has been tuned in the past is that it is still running a tune, and/or the pcm is bricked. since the vehicle is still driveable, i am leaning to a bad tune rather than hardware issues.

let's see what the x4 reveals.

 

[Cobra93]

Not sure what's going on with torque. I ordered the obd link lx.
It connected fine, but the same error. Data corruption, fast transfer disabled, adapter may be faulty. The obd symbol is red in torque as well as my phone symbol. The GPS and car are both blue.

I hooked up the x4 this morning and recorded until after I hit the way.

I assume (new to this) x4 records whatever I choose as the configuration. I assume in live wire on the pc if I choose the file Matt sent to log, it will show only that data.  ??

I have to figure out how to save the file and post it so you can view it.
The car didn't seem to have the sudden no boost/boost issue this morning. It wasn't amazing, but seemed to be the normal acceleration I'm used to.

Something else I did notice.
I sent my strategy code to Matt, but the file he sent back to me seemed to have a different code. The first 4 may have been the same, but not all.
I wasn't in a hurry as the car isn't sorted yet. I'll look again after work.

Thanks, SHOdded.

 

[SHOdded]

well its been a while since i ran a tune, so i am not sure but it makes sense the strategy code would change.

that data corruption on the obd port is an odd duck, but if it is possible, i would disable all other bt connections and try again. many times we have had owners have all kinds of dash lights lighting up on startup when an adapter is already plugged in. i think 2013+ have more issues with this than 2010-12.

so plug it in after you have started the vehicle and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Cobra93]

I tried to get the obd to work, but keep getting the same error.
If I go into settings (in torque) I do see communication with ecu is the error.

I also found a post by stealbluesho on how to load a config file on the x4 to use that config file.
I do have a file, but I believe it it a generic ecoboost file.
I dropped it into the box to attach it, I hope that's correct.

There are 2 WOT runs on this file. The car seemed decent during both.
One thing I do see, but maybe it is not what I think it is.
kPa manifold absolute pressure is  26.4 max. That converts to~3.48 psi. ??
Is that the actual boost? Torque shows ~10.0 psi.
I assume I'm wrong on my assumption.

I did get Gearheads config transferred to the x4.
I just checked the config is there and selected.
I will try to copy what he has selected and add fuel pump duty cycle to it.
I hope you can see the log with live link.

Thanks SHOdded, I'll have another log tomorrow with geaheads config.

 

[Cobra93]

I did 2 wot runs this morning with matts config file.
I did capture the "late" boost issue.

I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I can only go off what I believe
I understand should be happening.

I don't know why the throttle angle  initially hits 30%, then slowly tops out at 77% at what I assume is the shift into second gear.

Fuel rear pressure, rpm, boost, load, MAP kPa, throttle angle actual all seem to be on the same "slow ramp up" curve.

I know enough that the car is going to protect itself and can do it very quickly.
I don't know what a normal log like this should look like.

I believe that lack of boost could be an issue somewhere else, like fuel pressure being low, not necessarily a problem with the actual turbo, piping and so on.

I hope you can see the log and something is obvious to you.
Thanks, SHOdded.

P.S. I'm working on picking what to log in addition to matts config, adding fuel pump duty cycle as you suggested.

I did try what you suggested about waiting to plug in the obd adapter, same issue.
It would seem this issue started when I loaded the .csv file and selected items to log. I will try to remove that and see if it works like it used to.
I still get realtime data without issue. I don't know.

 

[Cobra93]

I did a factory reset on torque and removed all the what to log PIDs.
Torque connects with no errors, the 4 symbols (GPS, phone, obd adapter and car) are blue.
Fast transfer is working.

It must have been the .cvs file I loaded from the forum (ecoboostsho had posted). That was from '14 or the couple of PIDs I entered manually.
Not sure. I may try to find more pids and enter them manually or try the file without the ones I entered manually.

So everything is working as far as torque is concerned.

This was a mostly normal log from later in the day, looks similar to me.

 

[Cobra93]

I did a log with fuel pump percentage, duty cycle and module duty cycle.

I still see the TB opening to ~30%, closing and then opening up to ~80% slowly.
Looks like this is during the shift to second.

This live link is pretty nice, I need to understand what more of the PID's actually are.

I was thinking of pulling the upper intake and cleaning the valves, but I can't find much info as to torque specs for the bolt, sequence and i assume the bolts are too small to be torque to yield.

Thanks SHOdded.

 

[SHOdded]

i haven't had time to look at the logs yet, today or tomorrow most likely.

yeah tuning devices are a different beast from obd scanners.

i have to look up the intake removal info. but usually the best cleaning is done with walnut shell blasting, something to leave to the pros. may require each cylinder to be TDC before attempting the valves on that cylinder so there's that effort and time involved. if that is true, you cannot address all cylinders simultaneously, you have to go 1 by 1.

 

[Cobra93]

I appreciate the help.

The manifold looks pretty easy to remove. I ordered new gaskets, end brushes, picks and an extension for the drill.
I haven't found any torque specs on the bolts, I'll keep looking.
I also don't know if the coolant crossover tube is attached to the manifold. I'll get som mirrors or the scope out to check.

Thanks SHOdded. look at them when you have the time.

 

[SHOdded]

i have looked at the first log, main thing of note is the knock you see in 1st and 4th gears. very little knock in first but noticeable in 4th, after a downshift. good thing is no knock on acceleration. fuel trims look fine for oem tune as it will run pig rich at times with an 0.7 afr when more fuel is demanded. i still have to graph throttle input vs acceleration/knock to see if theres anything there, but did you go really wot? looks like gradual acceleration 13s run with as much time in 1st as 2-shift to 4th. will be looking at it some more before moving on to the next log. seems transmission response is off. now whether it is due to pcm or tcm or actual transmission hardware idk.

no wheel hop right?

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=7937.0
torque source management

* 0 - Driver Demand
** 1 - Transmission torque truncation
** 2 - Traction Control
** 3 - Vehicle Speed Limiting
** 4 - Engine Speed Limiting
** 5 - Anticlunk Tipin torque limiting or Tipin rate limiting
** 6 - Tipout torque
** 7 - Transmission Shift Modulation
** 8 - Engine Oil Over temperature
** 9 - Target N
** 10 - Powertrain Limiting Protection FMEM Limit
** 11 - ETC FMEM - RPM Guard
** 12 - PATS
** 13 - OSCMOD
** 14 - Speed Control
** 15 - Transfer Case Torque Limit
** 16 - Torque Based Decel
** 17 - VDE
** 18 - Engine Indicated Torque Limit
** 19 - Engine Combustion Stability Torque Limit
** 20 - HEV Torque Reduction at engine start or stop
** 21 - HEV Tipout Torque Reduction

what you seen in wot1
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?53586-Torque-Truncation-vs-Torque-Reduction&s=a855985b9655119bdfca315a88af5675&p=421188&viewfull=1#post421188

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070039770A1/en

i am learning alongside you lol hopefully we can figure this out together, but i am thinking when you get the sho tuned, it will fix this problem. lets see.

btw i do not recommend wot until transmission temp is at bare minimum 100f or above. i prefer it to be at bottom of N.O.T. but not always possible. since there is NO active heating of transmission fluid, it will take a lot longer than engine to reach operating temp. i have seen it as high as 15 min in cold winters and 5 min in summers. so add that to your logging. i do so routinely on my vehicles. ford vehicles love fresh fluid and being at good temps before being thrashed.

 

[Cobra93]

Yes, I went WOT. It is consistent. almost every time it opens to ~30°, closes some, then goes slowly to ~80°.
I'll have to look, but I think max "actual throttle opening" is always at the shift into second gear.

There's is no wheel spin.

I feel stupid for saying this, but if I open the log with live link gen 2 on my pc it automatically brings up all the parameters on a graph that I can select any I want to view. I don't know if it's that easy for a posted log or not. I hate to see you doing things the hard way if it can be easier.

I can see the throttle go to max immediately, but actual throttle angle does that weird thing most every time.

Okay I do see torque source on the graph now. I've seen it mentioned in reference to possible traction control kicking in.
i see it goes from
9(before I floor it) to
0 (as I floor it) to
1 (all the way to the shift into second gear)
7 (during the shift)
1 ( as it enters second gear)
0 (as it accelerates in second gear)
7 (as it shifts to third)
1 ( as it accelerates in third)
Then I let off
16 for a moment to
It shows 9 as I'm coasting and slowing down.

So What it shows is first gear acceleration (1)" transmission torque truncation".
To truncate is like limiting or taking the top off something as i understand it.

That sounds like the car, for whatever reason, is doing exactly what the graphs show for actual throttle angle.

I will try tomorrow morning with all the nanny's turned off and see if it does anything different.

This is a screen shot of the first log I posted where I felt like the boost hit hard right before the shift to second gear.
I didn't want to turn on to many things.

I will start reading on torque source to see if I can understand  it a bit better.

Thanks again SHOdded.

 

[SHOdded]

i think i updated my post after your last post lol so have added info on truncation and more.

next time you go to wot, make sure trans is warmed up. i think 176f or so iirc check owners manual. lets see if that makes the difference.

 

[Cobra93]

I will do that.
So you know, I am about 500' from a road that is a 50 mph limit.
This is where I'm doing the logs.
I will add trans temp and make sure it is warm to log and see if that is the difference.

Thanks SHOdded.

I will try to get a new log tomorrow, but it may not be until friday.
second thought the 10 or so mile drive on the e-way will have the tranny up to temp.
I should be able to get a log and add trans temp after work tomorrow.

 

[SHOdded]

https://www.transmissiondigest.com/torque-reduction/

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?msg=92900

 

[Cobra93]

I read through the links you sent. Torque source seem to be like rule by committe, if everyone is not a go, you don't.

I added trans temp this morning, sent it to the x4, but it wasn't there to select.
I don't know if I did it wrong in a rush or the x4 will only hold so many config files.
I'll try again after work.

I changed one guage to torque source.
16 is cruise control.
After exiting the e-way I came to a stop, then floored it.
It took off pretty good, no issues.
I saw 0 while accelerating through first.
1 during the shift and back to 0 accelerating in second.
So 1 must be a torque limit imposed for the shift.

It would seem you have found out the answer to the odd throttle behavior. The car said nope, not warm enough.
I'll check and post the log tonight.

It is a good feeling that my car may not have issues after all.
It's just smarter than the cars I used to have.

Thanks SHOdded.

 

[SHOdded]

curious that the x4 does not have a trans temp pid, tbh idk if i ever saw it on any of the log files posted on this forum. i guess use torque to confirm operating temp then switch over to x4 for logging if it comes to that.

you could use an obd splitter with a scangauge type tool but idk how reliably the obd port works with that.

yeah, sure hope it is something as simple as torque source!

fluid level can be slightly over filled like a pint or so, but again idk if that would make a difference vs temp. i guess the viscosity of the fluid has to be at the goldilocks tipping point for the trans to behave correctly. automatics have all that slippage with the tc which can make it a pain until you use a tune to harden the shift.