2010 SHO upgrade plan

[dcmartinpc]

Hello everyone!  First time here on the ecoboost forums!  I have been wrenching for many years on Fords, but almost all of it is very old school!  I still have a 1972 Gran Torino Sport with a heavily modified 351 Cobra Jet Cleveland sitting in the garage!

I have now added a 2010 SHO to my stable and I am looking to turn it in to a street sleeper/daily driver with a slightly more aggressive exhaust tone, but not loud or raspy...

Here is what I have come up with so far...

Livernois (LMS) parts:

CAI
Plugs
3 Bar MAP
T-Stat
MyCalibrator Stage 4 Tune

Exhaust:

PPE Catted Downpipes
Ford Racing Cat-Back Exhaust - https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-5200-SHOTC

From what I can put together, the ford racing cat-back is the same or very close to the now discontinued Borla system.  I like the subdued tone but it still has the low notes and some growl when under throttle.  Any opinions on this cat-back with the PPE Catted downpipes?  I haven't seen this combo anywhere.

I considered the LMS Catted Downpipes and LMS Catback, essentially just picking up their Level 4 Performance Pack, but again, from why I can surmise, the LMS Catback is essentially a rebranded Corsa, and I am not a big fan of that sound.

Any thoughts on my combination?

Any other bolt on parts I should consider?

Does anyone have a rough idea of where my HP and TQ numbers would be at the wheels with this setup?  I would love to hit roughly 400 AWHP and slightly more torque all said and done.  Are my expectations unrealistic?

Thanks for not lambasting me!  Hopefully I am not entirely off course!

Thanks in advance,

Don

 

[SHOdded]

Welcome to the community, Don, congrats on your new ride.  Def put up pics of your SHO and your "classic" rides (including project albums ).

I would ease into an exhaust mod if sound is a consideration.  The combination of downpipes and catback can be critical, so an option is to do downpipes + X-pipe and/or mufflers such as the Dynomax. 

PPE DPs and Corsa Install on a 2013
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2275.msg32891.html#msg32891
http://youtu.be/QNmV71kwju0
http://youtu.be/tnx6dIRq6ps
It IS an aggressive sound, but loud mostly when you step into it.  First-SHO did not post sound clips that I know of, but I think he had Livernois DPs with their catback/Corsa.  Anyway, Livernois offerings continue to evolve, so I hope people who have had the more current setups installed will chime in!

An exhaust sound thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2462

As far as power per mod:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,808

Most people would run around 350-375 AWHP with the mods you have listed (unless you get a "race" tune), and a meth injection kit pushes it over the top.  I have heard that tunes from our member AJPTurbo can do even better with little to no mods, I will let him & his clients testify to that.  AWTQ easily 500 with the meth kit, about 100 more than AWHP w/o the meth kit.  So your expectations are totally in line for a DD.

Do make sure your maintenance is uptodate prior to modding.  ALL fluids, checks for loose clamps/oil pooling in turbo piping tract, split turbo piping, crud in intercooler, etc.

Make yourself familiar with TSBs/recalls here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,228.0.html

 

[ZSHO]

Welcome aboard the E.B.P.F Don and due post some pics of your new SHO and no worries there will be no such thing as lambasting here and think SHOdded basically summed it all up already so best of luck to ya and glad to have you on board.   Z    :WELCOME:
I forgot to mention does your state require emissions testing?. Z

 

[derfdog15]

Catted downpipes should keep the tone mostly mellow. I concur that AJPTurbos tunes are amazing! My car ran a 12.87 on a 93 tune, with a mediocre DA on just his tune, axlebacks (welded in summit race muflers - also did resonator replacement with x-pipe), and a CAI. It ran 14.1 stock, that is a pretty stout improvement.

The ford performance catback is 2.25" and IMO that is not worth the price at all. if I was going to spend $900+ on a catback I would want 2.5" pipes to match the downpipes. Just my .02 there.

Here are my videos of my combo, before and after downpipes (but I went catless).

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7241.msg110351.html#msg110351

Also, for certain mods you have listed (plugs, 3-bar MAP) I HIGHLY recommend shopping around. RockAuto sells the 3bar for ~$45 to ~$50 shipped, almost $20 cheaper than LME/most tuners/vendors

Plugs can be had for ~ 1/2 the price of what tuners/vendors sell them for, if you are willing to check the gaps yourself, most tuners/vendors add to the price because they confirm gap for you.

Other than that, car should be pretty stout. Figure out the tuner you want to use for sure, early on, as LME uses their proprietary handlheld and other tuners (AJPTurbo, unleashed) use the SCT tuners.

Also do some research on the thermostat, as there has been some controversy on the 160 vs. 170 so I would say it is worth doing the research.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Thank you everyone for your responses!  I had not seen AJP on the forums and I think I will be contacting him soon.  I will check with him also, but do his tunes also make adjustments to the transmission and shifts/shift points?

I totally missed that the Ford Performance exhaust was 2.25" so sad....  I will be looking elsewhere.

I saw the exhaust thread and I think that is where I saw the borla system previously.  I may be better off just changing the downpipes first and see how that goes before I change anything after that.

Where would I look for additional information on X-Pipe systems as they seem less popular to me?

Don

 

[derfdog15]

Thank you everyone for your responses!  I had not seen AJP on the forums and I think I will be contacting him soon.  I will check with him also, but do his tunes also make adjustments to the transmission and shifts/shift points?

I totally missed that the Ford Performance exhaust was 2.25" so sad....  I will be looking elsewhere.

I saw the exhaust thread and I think that is where I saw the borla system previously.  I may be better off just changing the downpipes first and see how that goes before I change anything after that.

Where would I look for additional information on X-Pipe systems as they seem less popular to me?

Don

AJP does adjust the tranmission, my car shifts wonderfully.

As far as the x-pipe, most of the systems out there replace the resonator/third cat section with an enclosed X-pipe (X-pipe inside a case), while some are straight through at that point, you will be able to tell based on the images. The other route(which I have done and others as well). Is to replace the resonator (and 3rd cat if you desire), with an off-the-shelf x-pipe. Simply have an exhaust shop cut out the OE resonator and put in the X-pipe. That is what I did, and it is pretty nice IMO. I payed ~300 for the two mufflers I used, the x-pipe, and the muffler shops time to make it all work.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Z, my state does not require emission testing, I just thought having the PPE catted downpipes would make trips in for service simpler and quiet a bit of the rasp...

Don

 

[mval]

i have one of i think less than 5 borla catbacks, was discontinued but was in summit's book so they did build it for me. it is hooked to ppe catted downpipes. since not very update on new tech no video. my impressions when i was looking was borla had a lower tone, to me more a v8 tone, whereas the corsa was a more high pitched tone. the borla they made was the reg borla not the atak. the problem or if you like quiet is our cars are so sound deadened it makes hearing the exhaust difficult. & one thing to face getting a v6 to sound like a v8, & i have one with magnaflow cback on it, is very difficult. so i agree with you about doing the dp's first.beside the dp's really give you a good increase in low end torque. in my case dp's were not available when i started modding. i think the combo is still the  ideal for airflow, just cbacks cost a lot of $$ for smaller return than the dp's.

 

[dcmartinpc]

mval,

What is your impression of the magnaflow vs. the borla?  I know they are on different vehicles, just curious as to your thoughts.

I'm trying to read and dig in to everything I can!

Don

 

[dcmartinpc]

So more research...  It is never ending it seems! 

I would prefer to not run meth on my daily driver, seems like a bit more hassle than I want to deal with.

Would upgrading the turbos to the ATP turbos make any sense with the stock fuel system on 93 octane?  Would the stock fuel system support larger injectors?  From what I have seen, they can get a bit anemic at high boost at WOT.

I think I am going to hold off on the cat back.  Want this to be as much of a sleeper as possible.  I can't wait to see the looks on people's faces when they get slammed by a 4 door kid hauler!

So does this make sense?

PPE Catted Downpipes
Plugs
ATP Turbos
3 bar MAP sensor
Either Airaid intake or just a drop in K&N filter...
T-stat

Thanks!

Don

 

[ajpturbo]

Would upgrading the turbos to the ATP turbos make any sense with the stock fuel system on 93 octane?  Would the stock fuel system support larger injectors?  From what I have seen, they can get a bit anemic at high boost at WOT.

What exactly have you seen that makes you think the fuel injectors are a problem?...I emailed you a bit ago....When you see fuel pressure fall that is a pump problem...Put big injectors on and you still have a pressure problem....Larger fuel injectors can deliver more fuel at lower pulsewidths than smaller injectors at the same pressure.

Slightly bigger turbos could give the same airflow at high rpm at lower boost which would help IAT's and even allow a little more boost...Also more airflow at lower load will give more power...So the bigger turbos could be utilized well and I don't think the ATP's are so big that spool up would be a problem if even noticeable

 

[bpd1151]

I second AJP's comments.

There has NEVER been an issue with the stock injectors.

I mean hell, I am still running my stock, OEM fuel setup, on my beastly SHO.

You go slapping on bigger injectors, as stated, all you're gonna do is tax the $h!t out of the LPFP, & in turn, cause you more issues, than perceived benefits therein.

Upgraded, larger injectors will only come into play, when one invests in substantive motor work, upgraded turbo's, the new to market upgraded HPFP, coils, etc.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[dcmartinpc]

I probably should have been more clear in my question...  I was speaking about the fuel pressure drop, not the injectors when I said anemic.  It was a very poorly arranged sentence

When I mentioned larger injectors I was meaning along with other fuel system upgrades, but it sounds as though this should not be an issue.

Sounds like if anything I am looking at an upgraded HPFP if I am looking at the upgraded turbos.

Thanks for the education, I really appreciate all of the info!

Don

 

[SHOdded]

I would get the ATP turbos just because of the "cool" factor   You will likely have to return the stock turbos as core.  Your current list looks pretty sound, should get you to that 400AWHP level you are looking for.  You should keep a meth kit in your long-range vision, not only for power, but for keeping the engine clean.

 

[dcmartinpc]

I actually found a couple turbo cores locally for $200 a piece I could send in and avoid the turbo core charge.  It would also allow me to keep my stock turbos so I can put them back on when I sell the car in 5 years and upgrade to a 2016

I am trying to keep everything essentially bolt on so I can easily swap them out to another car, I am thankful the 2016 is essentially the same car mechanically!

Don

 

[SHOdded]

:thumb:

 

[derfdog15]

Other than having to get a new tune for the 2016, that sounds like a good plan. Keep in mind, depending on the tuner you go with, you may have to pay unlock/re licensing fees to switch the device to another car.

As for the 400 awhp mark, I think that is easily achievable with the mods you have planned.

I am running stock plugs, 3 bar, 170 stat, SW catless downpipes, stock catback with resonator replaced with X-pipe, and mufflers replaced with summit race mufflers. I also have an Airaid CAI, AJPTurbo Tune, and run E20 gas (so I get a bit more spark). I also have the wastegate boost regulator mod. My car put down 369.4/451.4 on the rollers this past tuesday, with the wastegate on my intake wide open, so it probably had atleast another 10-15 hp in it.

Add ATP's to that and you should easily hit 400 awhp.

For comparison, I have attached a Dynograph showing the comparison between my car, with the mods listed but no tune enhancements, my car tuned, and AJPTurbos car (stock tune with downpipes, and CAI, stock stat, stock plugs, 2 bar MAP; as well as a power pull on his car with the same mods as his stock pull, but tuned - he got past 400awhp without the ATPs)

Hope this helps!

Note: His pulls are labeled. For my pulls, run002 and 003 are power pulls and 004 was my stock pull. He ran 93 octane for his pulls, with higher boost than I am tuned for, and slightly lower spark. I ran E20 with lower boost, and higher spark. Our stock pulls are very similar. Also, I used SAE correction so it is apples to apples and removes temperature, humidity, and ambient pressure differences.

 

[dcmartinpc]

Thanks for that info dd!  More information, especially fact based data, is always helpful!

I am debating doing tune, downpipes, t-stat, plugs, and the LME HPFP first to see where that gets me.  The HPFP may push things over the edge.

I have been incredibly impressed with AJPTurbo!  He has been extremely responsive.

I did just find out that LME is now offering a FlexFuel performance tune, which is interesting for sure.  Being able to run E85 when I want it or 93 or any mix therein is intriguing.  I should probably check with AJP to see if that is something he can whip up...  His customer service has so far been second to none!

The beauty of all of the above is that I can see where things land with the HPFP, and then save the turbos for the last step if I want them.

Don

 

[derfdog15]

Am I mistaken or is the HPFP still in development?

As for the flex fuel, there are PIDs (though not on the sho) that can calculate alcohol percentage, AJPTurbo and I looked into doing it with the current way SCT does it. Most ford vehicles that are non ecoboost are flex fuel and use logic based on the O2 sensors to determine how much ethanol/alcohol is in the fuel.

I am excited to see if LME implements that same type of logic (hopefully pushing SCT to do the same) or if they add another sensor. If they add another sensor, then I am betting it can be adapted to be an analog input to an SCT Device to measure alcohol percentage, not sure how it would be incorporated into the tune though, so I bet they will be porting over fords basic flex fuel logic.

Either way, definitely nice to have, but they will be doing a lot of testing to get it right, different E contents, and different weather/conditions can cause some major differences in fueling. E85 overall needs 20% more fuel at steady state and 30% more at WOT by my research, so there will be variences needed.

I would hold off on the HPFP and the ATPs till the last step, because both are up there in the price range. You should be able to run ATPs, at lower boost than stock turbos, and get the same power as a maxed out stock turbo, leading to better fueling. I personally will be going for the ATP upgrade before going to a HPFP.

 

[dcmartinpc]

My understanding on the HPFP is that they are installing it themselves right now and will be selling as a customer install part in the next couple months.

I should be getting more information on their FlexFuel setup Monday.  He told me they have done multiple vehicles in house with HPFP and FlexFuel with solid results.

Don