3 bar, tstat guys-- How's your driveability?
- Thread starter Jtrain
- Start date
Yeah we've gone back and forth quite a few times. Just trying to figure out if this is something other's experience and I should jump back on massive data logging / back and forth-- or just kind of accept it.
The power and stuff is solid, but long drives / daily driving kinda stuff is... well-- exactly what we've been talking about.
I don't want to waste Torrie's time (or my own) over something that is common or accepted.
The power and stuff is solid, but long drives / daily driving kinda stuff is... well-- exactly what we've been talking about.
I don't want to waste Torrie's time (or my own) over something that is common or accepted.
Under the conditions mentioned by the OP, (High-load, mid RPM, High Boost section (Coming out of a corner and giving it 1/2 - 3/4 pedal) I would say the drivability of my car is perfect - just like it was with no tune except a helluva lot faster and stronger.
I wouldn't call the above scenario lugging. To me, lugging would be 45-50 MPH in 6th gear and applying all the throttle it will take without a downshift - exactly what Rich described. Under that condition, my car pulls some timing and it will show as Knock Retard on the gauge, but I really don't feel it at all.
I wouldn't call the above scenario lugging. To me, lugging would be 45-50 MPH in 6th gear and applying all the throttle it will take without a downshift - exactly what Rich described. Under that condition, my car pulls some timing and it will show as Knock Retard on the gauge, but I really don't feel it at all.
In regards to the 3BAR... The car is smoother in performance, and Dan Millen confirmed this in a conversation with him. He explained that it allows more incremental tuning of response due to data sent to the ECU. I noticed the difference immediately compared to the LME 2BAR version of the v8 tune. No matter what you do the 3.5 GDI in the SHO doesn't like to lug... It will pull timing unless you can be brisk on the throttle or get a downshift.... IMHO it's a great mod for $50-$60 bucks... Regardless of whether you use more boost.
BiGMaC said:
Not really true at all, bad information. YOU LOSE RESOLUTION with a 3 bar sensor installed where the 2 bar sensor was. The stock 2 bar sensor is 0-5 volt. Meaning that 0 Bar is 0 volts and 2 Bar is 5 volts. When you run the 3 bar, then 0 Bar is 0 volts and if you are at 3 Bar then the sensor is putting out 5 volts.
When resolution goes down then you have LESS INCREMENTS per volt. THink of it like this. A speedo gauge that goes to 200mph and another that goes to 100mph and both gauges are the same size. The spaces in between the 200mph speedo will be smaller and harder to read than the 100mph gauge. If the 200mph speedo gauge was larger then the resolution could be the same. But since the voltage scale is still only 0-5 volts with both map sensors the 3 bar has a wider range and still has to be represented by 5 volts. But it won't cause poor drivabilty and the perceived better drivability is probably due to the overall tune being better than stock. If the 3 bar map sensor operated on a 0-7.5 volt output then resolution and incremental change would be identical for both sensors. Not sure how else to explain it. If you've ever had to setup an analog equation to enter in for a datalogger for anything from a wideband or any other analog gauge this would be easy to understand.
And although lugging an engine is not good it doesn't automatically cause timing to be pulled. Your spark tables need adjusted if you are pulling timing when lugging. If you spend time tuning your spark tables your knock sensor should be fairly flat when logging. I have my spark tables on the conservative side so my car actually adds timing when the knock sensors see fit when I lug.
When the borderline spark tables are over advanced then you will see the knock sensors pulling timing. It's common for timing to be wrong in that area as timing really needs to be more retarded due to slow piston speed and not usually operated in that area of the tables. Sometimes timing will even be displayed as a negative number, meaning it sparks after top dead center. That's why you normally see more timing advance as RPM increases with load being the same.
Thanks for noticing pal...
I fully stand behind Livernois and their great tuning abilities. But with that said, I route for everyone out there to go fast regardless of who's tuning it. Competition is great, friendly competition even better. I always refer people to both LME and Torrie, will be great to add Eric (LET) to that list after some time in the ring.
The #'s are great bragging points and proof that it's working good for "you", but in my limited experience, the real fun just comes from lining em up at the strip and running them. We're all so close, any race could go either way. Makes a bracket racing trip at the convention sound like great fun.
Rich
I fully stand behind Livernois and their great tuning abilities. But with that said, I route for everyone out there to go fast regardless of who's tuning it. Competition is great, friendly competition even better. I always refer people to both LME and Torrie, will be great to add Eric (LET) to that list after some time in the ring.
The #'s are great bragging points and proof that it's working good for "you", but in my limited experience, the real fun just comes from lining em up at the strip and running them. We're all so close, any race could go either way. Makes a bracket racing trip at the convention sound like great fun.
Rich
Larrylu said:
Then you are screwed lol...there actually is a little headroom because you will see your stft rise but that will only help so much because the ecu has a limit of how much the stft can be and u would get a check engine light once it exceeds the fault threshold...but that's why you need the 3 bar, you have to have the ability to measure the elevated boost to properly fuel for it
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