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3 stage fuel system cleaning?
- Thread starter DRII
- Start date
DRII said:has anyone had this done to their EB engine?
the dealer is recommending this service be done. Cost around $125 at the dealer, however Sears service center will do it for $85 in my area.
any recommendations?
Could you explain what they will actually do in the three stages? Better able to comment then. TIA
I wonder from your question though... if sears can do it I bet you could too for <$25 worth of cleaners and some time.
BiGMaC said:DRII said:has anyone had this done to their EB engine?
the dealer is recommending this service be done. Cost around $125 at the dealer, however Sears service center will do it for $85 in my area.
any recommendations?
Could you explain what they will actually do in the three stages? Better able to comment then. TIA
I wonder from your question though... if sears can do it I bet you could too for <$25 worth of cleaners and some time.
i don't know exactly what the 3 stages are, thats just what the dealer called it.
there are DIY kits for this, but i'm not mechanically inclined LOL, so i'll just leave it to the pros.
i was wondering if 'sea foam' might do the trick. but with that, i think you still have to do some tinkering in the engine bay and not just put it in the fuel tank.
the dealer always seems to recommend some additional maintenance and of course for a fee. IDK if this is really needed or just the dealer looking for a little extra $…
my MPG has been around 17, i do drive aggressively but thought i would be getting better mileage than that; so maybe there is some carbon build up somewhere.
Find a dealer that handles BG products ....
They are the best , period.
I have used there products and services for years .
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/#bg-product-2
They are the best , period.
I have used there products and services for years .
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/#bg-product-2
SwampRat said:Find a dealer that is a handles BG products ....
They are the best , period.
I have used there products and services for years .
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/#bg-product-2
thanks S.R.,
interesting that there aren't any Ford dealers on there list in my area, only some Toyota and GM dealers :-
DRII said:SwampRat said:Find a dealer that is a handles BG products ....
They are the best , period.
I have used there products and services for years .
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/#bg-product-2
thanks S.R.,
interesting that there aren't any Ford dealers on there list in my area, only some Toyota and GM dealers :-
BG dealers and service techs have to be trained and certified through BG.
DRII said:my MPG has been around 17, i do drive aggressively but thought i would be getting better mileage than that; so maybe there is some carbon build up somewhere.
I was in the same boat as you, got the car beginning of this year and was getting 17 MPG. Heres a couple things you should try first:
1. Know what you're putting in your tank, some brands/stations have more ethanol than others which will affect how the power/MPG of the car. Stick to top tier gas, I find Sunoco 93 to run great and will fill up with Exxon or Shell 93 as a second choice.
2. Go to your local Walmart/Meijer/etc. and purchase a bottle of Chevron 65740 Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner and Marvel Mystery Oil
After the first full tank of Techron I went from 17 to 19 MPG. Then I use 4-6 oz of Marvel Mystery oil with every fill up (have went through one bottle/4 fill ups so far) and am now at 20.4 MPG. Mind you this is with well spirited driving, mix of city and highway.
If you aren't the first owner you don't know what kind of gas has been put in your vehicle, and with all this ethanol diluting our gas it helps to give the system a cleaning.
Best part is it cost less than $15 and is as simple as pouring it in your gas tank before a fill up. :thumb:
SHOdded said:Be sure to use the Techron Concentrate Plus 20oz 1 bottle, or 2 bottles of the Chevron Pro-Gard cleaner per fuel tank.
So I fill up at Chevron anyway (although stuck with 91 octane, and E10 on that from December through March). I'm consistently running about 20 mpg with my right foot all the way down when ever I can safely... Do I understand correctly that you guys think there's any benefit to adding more "Techron"?
I get most concerned about the valves in this DI engine... no fuel spray to clean them.
Chevron fuel already has Techron, but you can still benefit. "When added to a full tank of gasoline, a bottle of Techron® Concentrate Plus results in an additive concentration roughly 10 times stronger."
http://www.techron.com/what-is-techron/questions-answers.aspx#
http://www.techron.com/what-is-techron/questions-answers.aspx#
Spartn27 said:DRII said:my MPG has been around 17, i do drive aggressively but thought i would be getting better mileage than that; so maybe there is some carbon build up somewhere.
I was in the same boat as you, got the car beginning of this year and was getting 17 MPG. Heres a couple things you should try first:
1. Know what you're putting in your tank, some brands/stations have more ethanol than others which will affect how the power/MPG of the car. Stick to top tier gas, I find Sunoco 93 to run great and will fill up with Exxon or Shell 93 as a second choice.
2. Go to your local Walmart/Meijer/etc. and purchase a bottle of Chevron 65740 Techron Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner and Marvel Mystery Oil
After the first full tank of Techron I went from 17 to 19 MPG. Then I use 4-6 oz of Marvel Mystery oil with every fill up (have went through one bottle/4 fill ups so far) and am now at 20.4 MPG. Mind you this is with well spirited driving, mix of city and highway.
If you aren't the first owner you don't know what kind of gas has been put in your vehicle, and with all this ethanol diluting our gas it helps to give the system a cleaning.
Best part is it cost less than $15 and is as simple as pouring it in your gas tank before a fill up. :thumb:
thanks, i'll give that a try...
crash712us
New member
3m fuel system cleaner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX5J5kZLTw4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX5J5kZLTw4
Sorry folks , your off the shelf products at wally world or autozone help Some with cleaning our fuel systems but can not do a Thorough Complete Deep cleaning .
Remember we have a Turbo Charged GDI engine that stresses components more than most NA engines .
Ford and other Mfg's went to GDI primarily to deal with EPA standards of compliance ...
As a lot of you know I am a Long Haul over the Road Trucker .
I own my Semi , a 2008 Kenworth T800 Studio Sleeper with a Cummins isx 525 HP engine in it .
Injector problems and failure is very problematic on the newer diesels because of the EPA and the mandated emissions crap on them .
I have a strict service routine that I adhere to and have for the past 10 years or so to include a prior Semi. . Injector cleaning / crankcase , oil flush twice a year with additives for fuel at each fill up .
1million 200 thousand and some change in miles on original injectors with this truck. This type of life span IS NOT attainable with over the counter Heavy Duty Diesel injector cleaners .
My experience with BG products is not an isolated one .
3700 mile round trips every week from Tulsa , OK to Edmonton , AB Canada requires consistent dedendibility to maintain a high profit margiin and happy customers for me . The Oil and Gas industries are very demanding and I can not afford to settle for less .
There products and services on the Automotive side are stellar as well .
http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php
I have used there services in my cars since 2006 because I have faith in there products and services that are tailored to individual needs .
BG is Based out of Kansas and is involved in Nascar and other Motor sports venues .
Below is a VERY LONG read from there website pointing out some of the same/stuff addressed by Tracy at RX .
GDI stands for Gasoline Direct Injection.
Gasoline direct injection engines are nothing new. The first automotive GDI engine was introduced in Germany in the 50s. The GDI engine boasts more power with increased fuel economy. At the time, fuel and oil were cheap and the need for fuel-saving engines wasn’t significant. Manufacturers didn’t aggressively pursue GDI engines until the early 2000s.
Today, CAFE regulations put a lot of pressure on manufacturers to revolutionize vehicles and meet stringent fuel economy and emissions requirements. As a result, many manufacturers are turning to GDI, coupled with other engine technologies such as turbocharging, to produce a vehicle with small-engine efficiency and big-engine power.
GDI is the answer for OEMs!
GDI engines offer increased fuel economy, power and performance, all while reducing emissions. They are significantly more efficient than port fuel injection (PFI) engines.
For example, in a GDI engine, gasoline is sprayed directly where the combustion chamber is the hottest (instead of in the air intake), allowing for a more thorough, even burn. Ideally, this more complete combustion translates to better mileage and greater power. GDI engines burn leaner than port fuel injection engines (GDI 40:1 vs. PFI 14.7:1). A leaner mixture allows fuel to be burned much more conservatively. GDIs have accurately controlled emissions levels, more aggressive ignition timing curves, and more precise control over fuel and injection timing.
Too good to be true
As the saying goes, “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” And the same goes for GDI engines. As with most complex technologies, with the benefits, complications may occur.
New vehicles with GDI engines have seen significant performance and mpg losses, ignition failures and fouled injectors in as early as 3,000 miles (4,800 km) and, potentially, holes from carbon burned in the structure of the catalytic converter in as early as 50,000 miles (80,000 km)!
What’s causing all these GDI engines to have complications so soon?
Poor air quality
In most environments, intake air is dirty due to pollution, and with modern exhaust gas recirculation systems and crankcase vent systems—and without port injectors spraying gasoline (and the detergents that it contains) onto the valves—GDI components can get filthy over the course of many thousand miles.
Extreme pressure
GDI engines run at much higher cylinder pressures, which in time, can pass by the piston sealing rings. The heat and pressure released into the crankcase accelerates oil vaporization and eventually distributes oil droplets onto the intake valves. Thus, intake valves collect deposits and in as little as 10,000 miles (16,000 km), they can bake on and cause a decrease in power and poor drivability. Since inception, GDI engines have had known problems with coking—buildup of cooked fuel deposits that foul injectors.
Oil evaporation
The high operating temperatures of GDI engines can lead to engine oil evaporation. Oil vapors circulating in the cooler regions of the engine create deposits and pooling. Some of those areas include intake boots, valves, piston crown, head squish area and catalytic system.
In a port fuel injection engine, these droplets are “washed off” the intake valves by a constant stream of gasoline. However, a GDI engine does not have that advantage because the injectors spray inside the cylinders.
Deposits
Deposits are like a sticky coating of oil that forms especially on the intake ports and valves. Carbon buildup on the backsides of valves can result in reduced airflow.
A combination of sticky deposits and oil evaporation can lead to carbon buildup in several places in the engine. These sticky deposits can be cooked to diamond hard deposits and can dislodge and cause damage to turbochargers, catalytic converters, etc. These hard deposits can also cause irreversible cylinder scoring.
BG has the solution for complex technologies
With many complex technologies, BG has a simple, effective solution. Usually a pour product or a piece of equipment can keep the engine clean and deposit-free. GDI engines, however, have proven to be a little more challenging.
For example, in port fuel injection engines, the injector sprays fuel on the back of the valve. Thus, adding a fuel system cleaner to the fuel will clean deposits from the backs of valves. In GDI engines, however, because fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber—and not onto the back of the valve—it’s very difficult to get the backs of the valves clean, without a lengthy teardown. That sounds like an opportunity to BG!
BG has a two-pronged approach to potential complications in GDI engines: the Clean Up and the Keep It Clean.
The Clean Up is for the GDI engines that have accumulated many thousands of miles and have the deposit buildup to prove it. While it’s in depth, it’s nothing compared to the complete teardown in which many service departments are elbow deep.
BG Gasoline Direct Injection Cleaner Part 1 and 2
BG Gasoline Direct Injection Cleaner, PNs 271 and 272, is a two-part process formulated to quickly soften and disperse baked-on deposits, which accumulate on the intake valves of direct-injected engines. With the Gasoline Direct Injection Service Tools, PN 9060, the technician can remove harmful deposits without the complete disassembly that’s typically required.
Once the GDI engine has been cleaned up, it’s imperative to keep it clean to avoid continuous deposit buildup. The BEST way to clean these tough-to-remove deposits is to avoid them in the first place. The Keep It Clean approach packs a punch with three of BG’s most effective products. The BEST way to do that is with the BG GDI Performance Service at each oil change interval.
BG GDI Performance Service
BG EPR™ Engine Performance Restoration, PN 109, softens and dissolves hard-to-remove deposits from piston rings. Compression will begin to increase in as little as 10 minutes! Properly sealed combustion chambers improve compression, reducing oil dilution through blow-by, which is typical in GDI engines. BG EPR™ will restore lost fuel economy and power.
BG MOA,® PN 110, engine oil supplement prevents engine oil thickening under even the most severe driving conditions. It fortifies all qualities of engine oil to help withstand fuel contamination and maintain essential lubrication qualities longer under extreme temperatures. It keeps ring lands, hydraulic cams and lifters and other engine components clean.
BG 44K,® PN 208, fuel system cleaner quickly and effectively cleans the entire fuel system. BG 44K® provides quick cleanup of carbon-covered piston tops, fuel injectors and other crucial combustion areas. Because it provides efficient removal of upper engine deposits, it reduces problems caused by deposit buildup such as engine surge, stalling, stumble, hesitation and power loss. BG 44K® quickly restores engine performance and improves drivability.
Together these three products have been proven to keep GDI engines clean and prevent potential complications. So when manufacturers turn to new, complex technologies like GDI for better fuel economy and lower emissions, BG knows that GDI stands for opportunity. And BG seizes that opportunity to make GDI engines last longer and perform even better so that drivers can enjoy the significant benefit of these highly complex engines.
Remember we have a Turbo Charged GDI engine that stresses components more than most NA engines .
Ford and other Mfg's went to GDI primarily to deal with EPA standards of compliance ...
As a lot of you know I am a Long Haul over the Road Trucker .
I own my Semi , a 2008 Kenworth T800 Studio Sleeper with a Cummins isx 525 HP engine in it .
Injector problems and failure is very problematic on the newer diesels because of the EPA and the mandated emissions crap on them .
I have a strict service routine that I adhere to and have for the past 10 years or so to include a prior Semi. . Injector cleaning / crankcase , oil flush twice a year with additives for fuel at each fill up .
1million 200 thousand and some change in miles on original injectors with this truck. This type of life span IS NOT attainable with over the counter Heavy Duty Diesel injector cleaners .
My experience with BG products is not an isolated one .
3700 mile round trips every week from Tulsa , OK to Edmonton , AB Canada requires consistent dedendibility to maintain a high profit margiin and happy customers for me . The Oil and Gas industries are very demanding and I can not afford to settle for less .
There products and services on the Automotive side are stellar as well .
http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php
I have used there services in my cars since 2006 because I have faith in there products and services that are tailored to individual needs .
BG is Based out of Kansas and is involved in Nascar and other Motor sports venues .
Below is a VERY LONG read from there website pointing out some of the same/stuff addressed by Tracy at RX .
GDI stands for Gasoline Direct Injection.
Gasoline direct injection engines are nothing new. The first automotive GDI engine was introduced in Germany in the 50s. The GDI engine boasts more power with increased fuel economy. At the time, fuel and oil were cheap and the need for fuel-saving engines wasn’t significant. Manufacturers didn’t aggressively pursue GDI engines until the early 2000s.
Today, CAFE regulations put a lot of pressure on manufacturers to revolutionize vehicles and meet stringent fuel economy and emissions requirements. As a result, many manufacturers are turning to GDI, coupled with other engine technologies such as turbocharging, to produce a vehicle with small-engine efficiency and big-engine power.
GDI is the answer for OEMs!
GDI engines offer increased fuel economy, power and performance, all while reducing emissions. They are significantly more efficient than port fuel injection (PFI) engines.
For example, in a GDI engine, gasoline is sprayed directly where the combustion chamber is the hottest (instead of in the air intake), allowing for a more thorough, even burn. Ideally, this more complete combustion translates to better mileage and greater power. GDI engines burn leaner than port fuel injection engines (GDI 40:1 vs. PFI 14.7:1). A leaner mixture allows fuel to be burned much more conservatively. GDIs have accurately controlled emissions levels, more aggressive ignition timing curves, and more precise control over fuel and injection timing.
Too good to be true
As the saying goes, “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” And the same goes for GDI engines. As with most complex technologies, with the benefits, complications may occur.
New vehicles with GDI engines have seen significant performance and mpg losses, ignition failures and fouled injectors in as early as 3,000 miles (4,800 km) and, potentially, holes from carbon burned in the structure of the catalytic converter in as early as 50,000 miles (80,000 km)!
What’s causing all these GDI engines to have complications so soon?
Poor air quality
In most environments, intake air is dirty due to pollution, and with modern exhaust gas recirculation systems and crankcase vent systems—and without port injectors spraying gasoline (and the detergents that it contains) onto the valves—GDI components can get filthy over the course of many thousand miles.
Extreme pressure
GDI engines run at much higher cylinder pressures, which in time, can pass by the piston sealing rings. The heat and pressure released into the crankcase accelerates oil vaporization and eventually distributes oil droplets onto the intake valves. Thus, intake valves collect deposits and in as little as 10,000 miles (16,000 km), they can bake on and cause a decrease in power and poor drivability. Since inception, GDI engines have had known problems with coking—buildup of cooked fuel deposits that foul injectors.
Oil evaporation
The high operating temperatures of GDI engines can lead to engine oil evaporation. Oil vapors circulating in the cooler regions of the engine create deposits and pooling. Some of those areas include intake boots, valves, piston crown, head squish area and catalytic system.
In a port fuel injection engine, these droplets are “washed off” the intake valves by a constant stream of gasoline. However, a GDI engine does not have that advantage because the injectors spray inside the cylinders.
Deposits
Deposits are like a sticky coating of oil that forms especially on the intake ports and valves. Carbon buildup on the backsides of valves can result in reduced airflow.
A combination of sticky deposits and oil evaporation can lead to carbon buildup in several places in the engine. These sticky deposits can be cooked to diamond hard deposits and can dislodge and cause damage to turbochargers, catalytic converters, etc. These hard deposits can also cause irreversible cylinder scoring.
BG has the solution for complex technologies
With many complex technologies, BG has a simple, effective solution. Usually a pour product or a piece of equipment can keep the engine clean and deposit-free. GDI engines, however, have proven to be a little more challenging.
For example, in port fuel injection engines, the injector sprays fuel on the back of the valve. Thus, adding a fuel system cleaner to the fuel will clean deposits from the backs of valves. In GDI engines, however, because fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber—and not onto the back of the valve—it’s very difficult to get the backs of the valves clean, without a lengthy teardown. That sounds like an opportunity to BG!
BG has a two-pronged approach to potential complications in GDI engines: the Clean Up and the Keep It Clean.
The Clean Up is for the GDI engines that have accumulated many thousands of miles and have the deposit buildup to prove it. While it’s in depth, it’s nothing compared to the complete teardown in which many service departments are elbow deep.
BG Gasoline Direct Injection Cleaner Part 1 and 2
BG Gasoline Direct Injection Cleaner, PNs 271 and 272, is a two-part process formulated to quickly soften and disperse baked-on deposits, which accumulate on the intake valves of direct-injected engines. With the Gasoline Direct Injection Service Tools, PN 9060, the technician can remove harmful deposits without the complete disassembly that’s typically required.
Once the GDI engine has been cleaned up, it’s imperative to keep it clean to avoid continuous deposit buildup. The BEST way to clean these tough-to-remove deposits is to avoid them in the first place. The Keep It Clean approach packs a punch with three of BG’s most effective products. The BEST way to do that is with the BG GDI Performance Service at each oil change interval.
BG GDI Performance Service
BG EPR™ Engine Performance Restoration, PN 109, softens and dissolves hard-to-remove deposits from piston rings. Compression will begin to increase in as little as 10 minutes! Properly sealed combustion chambers improve compression, reducing oil dilution through blow-by, which is typical in GDI engines. BG EPR™ will restore lost fuel economy and power.
BG MOA,® PN 110, engine oil supplement prevents engine oil thickening under even the most severe driving conditions. It fortifies all qualities of engine oil to help withstand fuel contamination and maintain essential lubrication qualities longer under extreme temperatures. It keeps ring lands, hydraulic cams and lifters and other engine components clean.
BG 44K,® PN 208, fuel system cleaner quickly and effectively cleans the entire fuel system. BG 44K® provides quick cleanup of carbon-covered piston tops, fuel injectors and other crucial combustion areas. Because it provides efficient removal of upper engine deposits, it reduces problems caused by deposit buildup such as engine surge, stalling, stumble, hesitation and power loss. BG 44K® quickly restores engine performance and improves drivability.
Together these three products have been proven to keep GDI engines clean and prevent potential complications. So when manufacturers turn to new, complex technologies like GDI for better fuel economy and lower emissions, BG knows that GDI stands for opportunity. And BG seizes that opportunity to make GDI engines last longer and perform even better so that drivers can enjoy the significant benefit of these highly complex engines.
crash712us said:3m fuel system cleaner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX5J5kZLTw4
Chris... Is this the one you use personally? TIA I noticed that several manufacturers recommend it specifically for their gasoline DI engines.
SwampRat said:Find a dealer that is a handles BG products ....
They are the best , period.
I have used there products and services for years .
http://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/#bg-product-2
I agree with this, I had the BG service done to my car at about 23K miles and I believe my dealer charged around $70.00 for the service. I also agree that the BG service is the best available, I also had the BG service done performed on the PTU when I had the grease changed at 25K. Plan on having the BG done on the transmission and differential when I have the fluid/grease changed at 30K miles.
panther427
New member
Damn that is serious miles. The isx motors and all iof the current modern diesel are very picky and have much higher faiilure rates of injectors. Sounds like a nice truck swamp rat. I drive a 2004 petebilt 379 long hood flattop 550 c15 acert 18 speed with 940,000 miles. Jusr had to replace the ecm last week. Its amazing you havent had to replace injectors yet
mjhpadi said:I agree with this, I had the BG service done to my car at about 23K miles and I believe my dealer charged around $70.00 for the service. I also agree that the BG service is the best available, I also had the BG service done performed on the PTU when I had the grease changed at 25K. Plan on having the BG done on the transmission and differential when I have the fluid/grease changed at 30K miles.
Thanks for the input Mark...
I'll definitely look into the BG service when I get to 20-25K miles when I plan for the PTU service and do the fuel system then too. Found a Ford dealer about 17 miles away that offers it... it's where I bought the wife's truck... Want a Ford house to do it due to warranty and best availability of OEM PTU parts in case of a problem.
Likely I'll use either the 3-M or the Techron concentrate for the fuel system until that time.
And that would be a good, wallet-friendly approach IMHO. BG services are the tops, in my experience, so allotting funds for them like a coolant flush, brake flush or trans flush every 25K-30K is a great game plan if you can roll with it.BiGMaC said:Likely I'll use either the 3-M or the Techron concentrate for the fuel system until that time.
panther427 said:Damn that is serious miles. The isx motors and all iof the current modern diesel are very picky and have much higher faiilure rates of injectors. Sounds like a nice truck swamp rat. I drive a 2004 petebilt 379 long hood flattop 550 c15 acert 18 speed with 940,000 miles. Jusr had to replace the ecm last week. Its amazing you havent had to replace injectors yet
http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php
Just trying to stress that BG KNOWS THERE STUFF , especially when it comes to fuel systems .
I know my 2nd post on this is a long one but there is good info in there from BG .
As I said in the prior post BG addresses many of the same issues that Tracy at RX does.
As I see it , with injector failure seemingly becoming somewhat more frequent in these engines ; preventive measures against this need more consideration .
I was really surprised that my dealer offers the complete line of BG services. They really don't push it, I discovered that they were an authorized dealer when the service manager suggested that our Sable should have the fuel service done and explained that they were a BG dealer. I was extremely pleased with how much cleaner the entire upper part of the Sable's engine looked after cleaning...and this was at about 150K miles. So I really think it's worth the cost for the cleaning, I am certainly sold on it, and because it's from my Ford dealer and they have never once "pushed" the BG services I think they really speak for themselves.
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