Double pump/line/nozzle thought.

[SilvererSHO]

If you had a set-up with two small nozzles with a separate line and pump for each if one went down would the other save the engine from damage when running a meth tune?  Would one line temporarily give the engine enough meth?  In other words, how much more meth is usually being injected for making power, if any, than needed just to prevent detonation? 

 

[ajpturbo]

What type of controller would you use? And how would the controller know that the first pump failed?

 

[SilvererSHO]

I dunno?  But at least this way if you just had a simple warning light on each line the meth system would be safe temporarily with one pump/line/nozzle not working.

 

[SHOdded]

A dead man switch?  I think really you should get a good controller in the first place.  The PCM (per FoMoCoSHO) will shut down and save the engine in case of a no-spray condition.

 

[SilvererSHO]

Maybe I'm not familiar enough with how some of the controllers handle and detect a no spray condition.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

AEM makes a failsafe device....

I am a novice meth guy but... having two pumps isn't going to be worth the effort, install, and price... it will need to be primed and ready ALL the time in the event it's needed...

I cannot speak for the other kits, but the Alky Control kit can spray more meth than you need unless you are highly modified like BPD... even then I suspect he running two nozzles for a smoother delivery and not because he needs more meth....

I haven't seen anyone running two pumps and I have done quite a bit of googling and talking to the place I get methanol from...

 

[SilvererSHO]

AEM makes a failsafe device....

I am a novice meth guy but... having two pumps isn't going to be worth the effort, install, and price... it will need to be primed and ready ALL the time in the event it's needed...

I cannot speak for the other kits, but the Alky Control kit can spray more meth than you need unless you are highly modified like BPD... even then I suspect he running two nozzles for a smoother delivery and not because he needs more meth....

I haven't seen anyone running two pumps and I have done quite a bit of googling and talking to the place I get methanol from...

it will need to be primed and ready ALL the time in the event it's needed

It would be.  Two pumps, two nozzles and two lines supplying the meth injection.  If one went down a warning light would go off and you'd still have the one pump, nozzle, line supplying half the normal amount instead of nothing like you'd have in a failure of a single pump, nozzle, line system.  That's my question to the meth guys.  Would that be enough to protect your engine?

 

[StealBlueSHO]

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Make sense?

It's the same principle as one pump... if you are tuned to rely on the meth for fuel and knock suppression and it the pump dies, you are relying on the ECU to pull spark fast enough to preserve the engine. The same could be said if you are running two pumps...

 

[TopherSho]

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Make sense?

It's the same principle as one pump... if you are tuned to rely on the meth for fuel and knock suppression and it the pump dies, you are relying on the ECU to pull spark fast enough to preserve the engine. The same could be said if you are running two pumps...

^ this.

If your car is mapped to run 28+ spark, and is hard mapped for that high of octane source al the time and suddenly you are feeding it only 92-pump gas it will knock HARD.  How hard? I do not know.  but i imagine *if* you did not see the puffs of brown smoke or feel/hear the knock and kept on it there would be very severe stress, and likely damage.

Running a hard core meth tune is a choice and a risk.  Those that are understand the risks and drive it anyways.   

Now, in theory running two full setups is 'interesting'.. with a line pressure switch of some sort in each meth line might be able to build a fail-over.  IE if WOT but line-1 has no pressure == circuit two opens and tries to pump meth from its source.

Expensive setup.  but cheaper than a long block.

edit:  expanding thought..
pressure switch in line-1 supplies a signal to keep power from pump two under WOT conditions or trigger conditions?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

This is why I want to run full E85 with meth. In case of failure you still have the massive octane of E85 to act as an added buffer.

 

[lamrith]

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Make sense?

It's the same principle as one pump... if you are tuned to rely on the meth for fuel and knock suppression and it the pump dies, you are relying on the ECU to pull spark fast enough to preserve the engine. The same could be said if you are running two pumps...

^^ yes..

Now if the OP is talking about running the 2 independent meth systems each at 1/2 flow (is that even possible?) then his theory would have some merit.  Since you only lose 1/2 your total flow and not all of it.  But that is allot of hardware and complexity to add in.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

So you would tune for 1/2 the total flow of meth coming in...

Based on my very NOVICE that would be difficult to tune the fueling for...

Not sure how practical that would be...

 

[TopherSho]

This is why I want to run full E85 with meth. In case of failure you still have the massive octane of E85 to act as an added buffer.

I just with LMS e85 pump wasn't so damn spendy.  i'd love to go full e85 for now.

 

[TopherSho]

So you would tune for 1/2 the total flow of meth coming in...

Based on my very NOVICE that would be difficult to tune the fueling for...

Not sure how practical that would be...

I think the intent is to to tune for the combined flow (ie 100%),  and if 1 pump failed you would be at 50% flow.  No the tune would not be happy and you'd knock like hell.. but it would be better than being tuned for 27-28+spark and go from 110+octane to 92 under say WoT. 

 

[SilvererSHO]

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Make sense?

It's the same principle as one pump... if you are tuned to rely on the meth for fuel and knock suppression and it the pump dies, you are relying on the ECU to pull spark fast enough to preserve the engine. The same could be said if you are running two pumps...

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Yes, that's where I was going with this.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Then I would recommend running a conservative tune with one pump so if it fails then you don't need the meth to prevent engine failure...

The Alky Tune that LMS sent me is setup this way... its conservative enough that I could technically run the Alky tune without Alky... I would just have the knock sensor pulling spark... not the best way to run it.. but it would run fine... my oar would change eventually to a lower spark scaling...

 

[TopherSho]

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Make sense?

It's the same principle as one pump... if you are tuned to rely on the meth for fuel and knock suppression and it the pump dies, you are relying on the ECU to pull spark fast enough to preserve the engine. The same could be said if you are running two pumps...

The answer is not a simple one.. or maybe it is? If your tuned and maxed out for the amount of meth being injected with two pumps, your car is reliant on that flow of meth... if one pump fails, most likely you will experience an adverse reaction to the lack of supplied fuel...

If you are running a conservative tune, that doesn't require the knock suppression that two pumps are providing via meth, then one failure will not cause a problem... since your not maxed out...

Yes, that's where I was going with this.

If you are going full fail-safe mode,  it is not a bad plan at all 50% meth is better than no meth on a meth dependent tune...  I approve of the idea. (Im a software support guy,  redundancy appeals to me)