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E85 is AWESOME!
- Thread starter 4DRHTRD
- Start date
Torque takes the lambda measurement and then applies stoich calculations based off of settings in the profile of your vehicle. You can choose your gas type. I wish I could just see lambda, I'd rather see that due to fuel mixing but since they're calculating off of lambda as long as you know the numbers you're expecting you're good.BiGMaC said:SwampRat said:When my MX OBDII adapter gets here Sometime this week I'll be on a learning curve with Torque and I'll post it .FoMoCoSHO said:I would love to see your AFR, FRP, and fuel trims with the current tune.
I think Torque calculates AFR indirectly for our cars (yes even with wide band) rather than measuring it. The best we've got, but perhaps not good enough... dunno
Another explanation:
The best ratio for gas mixture is 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel.
The best ratio for e85 mixture is 9.8 parts air to 1 part fuel.
The O2 sensor does not know how much air or fuel you started with. It only knows oxygen levels left in the spent charge. The O2 sensor reports in terms of lambda. If the lambda value is 1.0, the fuel is burned optimally, and started with the right mix. Whether you start with gas at 14.7:1 or e85 at 9.8:1, the lambda will be the same at the O2 sensor.
When you see a value reported from a wideband, the value is typically converted to a gas equivalent AFR. Some widebands (like the PLX) will let you change the display and show lambda, or show ethanol-equivalent AFR's. So, let's say your wideband is set to show gas equivalent AFR, but you are running e85. Cruising around, the display will show 14.7:1. This means the lambda is 1.0, and in reality your e85 mix is 9.8:1. When you go WOT, the wideband display shows 11.76:1. This means your lambda is .80, and if you are running e85, the actual mix was 7.84:1.
More info:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/1307_wideband_oxygen_sensor/
This table is what is important notice the Lambda of max power rich and lean of the various fuels. It varies but I personally tune for around .80 Lambda and then add fuel if we see knock. Around here it's very easy to knock on 91 octane so richer is better to an extent. With E85 or E85 mixing the ethanol heat removing properties helps immensely to stop knock. This is why both my Flex and V are running around at approximately 26-28 degrees of timing at WOT, can't even consider that on gas and meth injection.
Air/Fuel (A/F) Ratios of Common Fuels
| Fuel | A/F | Lambda (λ) |
| Pure Gasoline Stoichiometric | 14.7 | 1.000 |
| Pure Gasoline Max Power Rich | 12.5 | 0.8503 |
| Pure Gasoline Max Power Lean | 13.23 | 0.900 |
| E10 Stoichiometric | 14.08 | 1.000 |
| E10 Max Power Rich | 12.0 | 0.8523 |
| E10 Max Power Lean | 12.7008 | 0.9020 |
| E15 Stoichiometric | 13.79 | 1.000 |
| E15 Max Power Rich | 11.75 | 0.8521 |
| E15 Max Power Lean | 12.4362 | 0.9018 |
| E85 Stoichiometric | 9.765 | 1.000 |
| E85 Max Power Rich | 6.975 | 0.7143 |
| E85 Max Power Lean | 8.469 | 0.8673 |
| Ethanol Stoichiometric | 9.0078 | 1.000 |
| Ethanol Max Power Rich | 6.429 | 0.7137 |
| Ethanol Max Power Lean | 7.8 | 0.8659 |
| Methanol Stoichiometric | 6.45 | 1.000 |
| Methanol Max Power Rich | 4.0 | 0.620 |
| Propane Stoichiometric | 15.7 | 1.000 |
| Propane Max Power Rich | 13.18 | 0.8395 |
For the purposes of this thread, please refer to pg 62.
There is a ton of other info as well.
Enjoy!
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm1202.pdf
There is a ton of other info as well.
Enjoy!
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm1202.pdf
Hey 4dr, there is a specific section in there for the ECO 3.5 fuel system (Pg 158)
My research indicates that the Bosch fuel system we have will support 2900 PSI at the rail(The rail sensor does 3770PSI!)
The way I read this, the only thing keeping us from increasing FPR is tuning.
I'm also thinking along with the 2013 LPFP change, our programming may have changed also which could be why I have so much rail pressure unlike gen 4.1
I'm curious about your thoughts on this.
My research indicates that the Bosch fuel system we have will support 2900 PSI at the rail(The rail sensor does 3770PSI!)
The way I read this, the only thing keeping us from increasing FPR is tuning.
I'm also thinking along with the 2013 LPFP change, our programming may have changed also which could be why I have so much rail pressure unlike gen 4.1
I'm curious about your thoughts on this.
FoMoCoSHO said:For the purposes of this thread, please refer to pg 62 and 158.
There is a ton of other info as well.
Enjoy!
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm1202.pdf
I have posted my views about this. I am sympathetic to this position but the fact of the matter is all food is going up, E-85 makes a great scapegoat for bad economic policies across the board.Lanson said:Can I just say that E85 is not awesome in the long-term, because the fuel is made up of our food? Ethanol fuel comes from corn. Have you priced corn lately?!? Just sayin'.
Hopefully E-85 will evolve to the point we can manufacture cellulosic ethanol and be able to use all forms of plant waste to make it.
A mid gap solution would be to use hemp, but that's a whole other discussion.
I would very much like the dream envisioned in the Back To The Future movies to come true. Although many, many successful experiments have been conducted with biodiesel type fuels, they have a long way to go to see the light of day in significant production.
Besides, farmers will grow what they will get paid for. One crop replaces another as the economy dictates. I am just glad we have not gotten to the Soylent Green reality for fuel yet. Compared to that, ethanol from corn is easily acceptable.
Besides, farmers will grow what they will get paid for. One crop replaces another as the economy dictates. I am just glad we have not gotten to the Soylent Green reality for fuel yet. Compared to that, ethanol from corn is easily acceptable.
I decided to throw 3 gallons of E85 in with E0 91. That put me to E13 and 93 octane. The car feels stronger with less hesitation vs 91 octane. I'm definitely going to get an Unleashed tune now and tune for E30 since I have E85 all around me. E30 will get me 96 octane and will be much cheaper than the 1 gas station that sells 93 octane!
Thanks for this thread!
Thanks for this thread!
Actually your effective octane is much higher.....92BlackGT said:I decided to throw 3 gallons of E85 in with E0 91. That put me to E13 and 93 octane. The car feels stronger with less hesitation vs 91 octane. I'm definitely going to get an Unleashed tune now and tune for E30 since I have E85 all around me. E30 will get me 96 octane and will be much cheaper than the 1 gas station that sells 93 octane!
Thanks for this thread!
Direct injection is like steroids for E85.
ecoboostsho
New member
Yes definitely...I am doing that with my untuned 2013 right now and it definitely helps with acceleration, overall responsiveness. The knock gauge indicates the car is a lot more willing to add timing to back it up with actual data. FoMoCoSHO posted earlier he picked up like .4 in the quarter just blending E-85...WickedSHO said:If I threw in a gallon or two of E-85 into my 2014 with out being tuned for it. Is there any benefit?
SHOnUup said:Just remember to add a fuel additive that lubricates the system every few fillups.
Rich
What do you recommend?
E85 inherently has lubricants built in and combined with a top tier fuel you will be fine. If you don't run top tier fuel it is definitely something to consider though as no E85 is top tier so I consider their add packs suspectSHOnUup said:Just remember to add a fuel additive that lubricates the system every few fillups.
Rich
I'm curious about archoil as it is a friction modifier which may or may not have positive effects for us corn addicts....
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