GDI engines & catch can use

The reason I suggested Pennzoil Platinum with Pure Plus in another thread was mostly in relation to this issue.
This new oil is one of the least volatile on the market (NOACK rating).
Oil plays a huge part in these crankcase vapor issues.

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panther427 said:
Ok people you all are starting to be like politicians with this thing.. I want proof.  no no no no not that.. I want proof on a recent test.... nnooo no no no.. On a ford....NO on  A SHO, a F-150 doesnt count.

Now yes i agree with all that.. So now we have a SHO... so whats next.. well  what causes it.. Tracy has already explaned what causes it... Yes you do get some oil from the turbo seals.

AND I agree these systems are fing expensive when you look at most of the other brands out there.. 400 dollars for the CSS and CC.. THAT IS A TON OF MONEY>..

But if you havent used BG's products they arent cheap either..  30 dollars here and there for BG products over 2 years...... Trust me it adds up.. And i love there stuff i used the crap out of it when i was turning wrenches. The injector cleaning system, trans flush and evything else i used of there worked great.


But it comes down to what you want from your car and how long you plan to keep it...  I just hope this recent fix on painters car solves the problem.
Click to expand...


Thank you ... sometimes I feel like I'm beating a dead horse .
I honestly think its now becoming a mater of people not Fully reading these posts by me and others or its a question of comprehension and or cynicism on there part .

It's as clear as day and night to me .
 
panther427 said:
Ok people you all are starting to be like politicians with this thing.. I want proof.  no no no no not that.. I want proof on a recent test.... nnooo no no no.. On a ford....NO on  A SHO, a F-150 doesnt count.

Now yes i agree with all that.. So now we have a SHO... so whats next.. well  what causes it.. Tracy has already explaned what causes it... Yes you do get some oil from the turbo seals.

AND I agree these systems are fing expensive when you look at most of the other brands out there.. 400 dollars for the CSS and CC.. THAT IS A TON OF MONEY>..

But if you havent used BG's products they arent cheap either..  30 dollars here and there for BG products over 2 years...... Trust me it adds up.. And i love there stuff i used the crap out of it when i was turning wrenches. The injector cleaning system, trans flush and evything else i used of there worked great.


But it comes down to what you want from your car and how long you plan to keep it...  I just hope this recent fix on painters car solves the problem.
Click to expand...
Damn. I saw your original post and I really don't understand the hostility.

I've read everything presented from both sides of the issue, both have valid arguments  and I'm not saying anyone is wrong on this subject. Like most everything else, somewhere in the middle is probably the answer.

These are the reasons I'm choosing this path and I don't judge those who don't. It's their money and if a different path makes them feel better, that's fantastic, it's their money to spend.

And quite frankly, I'm g-damn tired of reading about catch cans. I'd much rather spend my time driving, racing, modding, and reading about stuff that will allow me to go faster.

If that makes me "narrow minded" I'm OK with that too.

 
Thats my point FoMoCo.. we have proof for those who want it.. other than getting install correct.. Im also over this catch can thing.. I wanna read about the carbon fiber intake and new intercoolers and FUN STUFF..

i didnt mean to focus on you.. sorry about that.. that why i deleted it.. the narrow minded part was we got caught up in just the carbon build up and forgot about other potential benifits of a catch can.

So if you want a catch can or not read and make your own choice.


So who wants a beer
 
I think for me since I don't put many miles on my car that using the BG products are a plus...I did the fuel cleaning at about 23K miles..and will us BG additive.  Still undecided about the catch can with the low miles, but it's really good to see all the research and hopefully now RX has their system working correct...I am looking forward to more real world experience with it.  Sure do appreciate all the info that is being gathered on catch cans! I am sure that I made the right decision on having the BG service done and whether I get a catch can or not, I will continue to have their service done every 25K.
 
panther427 said:
Here you go everyone having sleepless nights over this issue.... BG products...the very company we have talked about,and there wonderful additives and machines have there very own taurus sho. They have been keeping tract of the valves and injectors over 60,000 miles. With excellnt boroscope photos and there take.

http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/
Click to expand...


The BG test is probably the best documented over time. Read the comments, that even though they used upper induction treatments over the time of the test they still ended up with enough deposits that the performance degradation was noticed by several of the engineers.

And if lets say you do a upper induction cleaning (remember, this breaks the hardened deposits loose and some cause damage as they are forced between the piston and cylinder wall during the process, and the accelerate wear on the valve guides cannot be reversed) every 10 k miles at $150-$250 a time....the can is a small price in comparison by preventing all of this to begin with.  You can treat the illness after it sets in, or prevent it from happening.

The BG addditive in the fuel does nothing (none do) on a DI engine as it would have to shower the intake valves with fuel  like a port injection engine, so there is zero effect there.  And as the injectors now operate at 2000 PSI plus, vs 45-55 psi of old, deposits do not have a chance to form in them.

We have been working closely with ML Parker (from the original Ford SVO development team under Michael Kranefuss in the 80's) on this for the past 8 months as well.

Doing an upper induction service every 25k miles I believe will also be good, but doing it for the first time after say 50k miles or more the risk of damage from the deposits breaking loose would concern me.
 
So what suggested methods are available for folks who start upper induction cleaning at a late stage?  Are there any that can be done with the engine stationary?
 
SHOdded said:
So what suggested methods are available for folks who start upper induction cleaning at a late stage?  Are there any that can be done with the engine stationary?
Click to expand...

Best is the manual cleaning. If I didn't do a thread on it here yet I will get one up.  No solvent based solution gets more than 60-70% of it to break loose. It does it by saturating the deposits and then they expand and break loose.

A manual cleaning is not difficult, but takes 4-5 hours to perform.

Needed:

Tools to remove IM
Shop vac
Air compressor and air nozzle to clear debris
Stainless brush set with long shafts:
https://www.google.com/search?q=stainless+brushes&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ruhKU9rjD4nx2AXjw4DwBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1600&bih=775#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Ua7z5SbGYPLlfM%253A%3B_Po50TLlojdU-M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ipatools.com%252Fproducts%252Fmedia%252Fcatalog%252Fproduct%252Fcache%252F1%252Fimage%252F1200x%252F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%252Fi%252Fp%252Fipa_stainless_steel_bore_brushes_8080_04.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ipatools.com%252Fproducts%252Findex.php%252Fipa-8080.html%3B1200%3B1200
and drill or die grinder
Long flat blade screw driver and or pic set.

Remove intake manifold and clean around every port so painters tape will stick well. Cover all but the first port your going to clean,

Rotate the crank (use socket on dampner bolt) until it is at TDC  so both intake valves are closed.

Use screw driver and pics to break loose all the larger deposits, and suck out w/vac. Then move to brushes. Dont be afraid of scratching, all is hardened.  Once that port is clean (2 valves to port) blow all debris out and vac any from around next port and tape finished port off and do the next. Repeat until finished. No debris can get into the cylinder and cause damage and this way your starting as new.

BMW has a blast kit that uses walnut shell media to do the same, and you can always remove the heads...but this is the easiest and produces excellent results.


 
I'd give this article a read. I sell this stuff where I work and the BG rep has been educating me and letting me try some products. I'll keep you guys posted on the results. http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/
Sorry this post is a day late and a dollar short.

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So adding a BG product or something similar to the gas would have no affect on anything very interesting

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Ricanracer140 said:
I'd give this article a read. I sell this stuff where I work and the BG rep has been educating me and letting me try some products. I'll keep you guys posted on the results. http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/


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Click to expand...

The link you post has been previously brought up and is the basis for for many of the members deciding to continue with our installs or purchasing an RX OCC . A Lot of continuing discussion on the matter though .
 
roushed said:
So adding a BG product or something similar to the gas would have no affect on anything very interesting

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Click to expand...
Actually according to the article a product like BG44K will help keep injectors and the combustion chamber clean until the deposits on the valves and other areas begin to affect performance.
 
You can also blast the valves with walnut shell media.
Cheap, safe and easy to do, with greater effectiveness than scrubbing with elbow grease.

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I would love to see a comparision of two different engines, both with about the same mileage, one that had a catch can installed and one without, then borescope or even tear downs of both engines...it would be a real world test of how much the catch can helps keep the engine clean. And a great side by side view of with and without.
 
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