Help - 150k miles PTU Output Shaft Rotational End Play

[abs]

I have a 2010 EB Flex with an original PTU and about 150k miles.  I'm trying to determine if the PTU needs replacement due to excessive wear.  It's out of the car right now as I'm doing a transmission/torque converter replacement. 

The PTU does not whine and rotates smoothly.  However, when I change the rotation of the output shaft it makes a clicking noise and there is some rotational play in the output shaft.  I made a video to show what I'm talking about here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNQz4Qw0v9k

Would love some advice from the expert folks here who have had more experience with these units, both new and used, to determine if what I'm observing indicates I should replace the unit.

A bit of history about this unit, I've changed the fluid using the evacuation method every 30k miles since there was 60k miles on the odometer, so it's been fairly well maintained since then. 

https://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9334&p=106997&hilit=ptu#p106997

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

 

[ZSHO]

I'm not quite certain on this but allowing the intermediate shaft to rotate while it is disconnected from the gear or damage to the clockspring may occur. If there is evidence that the intermediate shaft has rotated,the (clockspring) must be removed and recentered!
Im hoping others will chime in.

BTW Due setup an Intro @ your earliest convenience.TIA. Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

 

[SHOdded]

A couple of members have replaced their own PTUs and/or worked with issues on the output shaft (to driveshaft), so they likely will have more insight on the "play" issue.  Otherwise, nothing seems out of the ordinary in the video.  No noise at all but for that output shaft as you rotated it.  Assuming the low rpm results correspond to high rpm results, of course. 

Was there a pre-existing leak from the output shaft prior to PTU removal?  In that case you would want to replace the seal at the very least.  You have to index the output flange and the driveshaft so the driveshaft balance is maintained.  Else the driveshaft has to be rebalanced.

As far as movement of the intermediate shaft, not sure if the clockspring is affected when the shaft is moved with the PTU already off the vehicle.  I don't see why it would, but IDK 4 sure.

 

[abs]

ZSHO and SHOdded:

Thanks for your replies.  The rear output shaft seal has never leaked on this PTU.  At one point I had a leak at the passenger half-shaft output location (I think this seal has failed for many of us), but that seal was replaced (twice actually) and has not leaked in years.  I'm certain that rotating the PTU while it is off the vehicle will not effect the clock spring since the clockspring is in the steering wheel and not the driveline.  I did also mark the rear drive shaft and PTU output flange so they can be properly reinstalled with the same position.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[SHOdded]

i think you are all good to go then.  your call if you want to replace the output shaft seal.  seems to be doing fine to me, and you can do it later if need be.  yes ideally the flange should be locked and immovable, but it is out of the vehicle so it will not behave the same.  Check once reinstalled - in P and N, the driveshaft should not rotate at all.  Keep up the good work with the fluid changes - PITA, but obviously paying off for you :thumb:

 

[glock-coma]

I still have my old PTU all though the gears have been removed from it. The flange and pinion gets are still intact.
I think what you’re hearing is the
hypoid gear inside making contact where the pinion and the ring gear meet.
There will alway be some play between the surfaces. As long as you’re not seeing debris in your oil when you change it I would think the wear would be minimal.
I can get a pic later if it will help.

 

[4sfed]

I still have my old PTU all though the gears have been removed from it. The flange and pinion gets are still intact.
I think what you’re hearing is the
hypoid gear inside making contact where the pinion and the ring gear meet.
There will alway be some play between the surfaces. As long as you’re not seeing debris in your oil when you change it I would think the wear would be minimal.
I can get a pic later if it will help.

May I ask why your PTU internals were removed?  Was it bad (or failing), and this was lesser expensive solution?  Or did you just not want AWD anymore?  Some other reason?

 

[glock-coma]

No my PTU went bad, one of the bearing races disintegrated and cause total failure.
I kept the old one to dissect

 

[ZSHO]

I thought a new shaft seal was recommended anytime the PTU is removed from the vehicle!!  Z

 

[glock-coma]

Here’s a preview from a pic I have saved on my phone.

 

[glock-coma]

The driveshaft where it connects to the PTU does have a clock spring per the manual. They don’t want you rotating the drive flange

 

[4sfed]

Here’s a preview from a pic I have saved on my phone.

Wow!  Yikes!  ...you let all the magic metal flakes out.

 

[glock-coma]

Here’s a picture of the pinion and ring gear.

 

[SHOdded]

I thought a new shaft seal was recommended anytime the PTU is removed from the vehicle!!  Z

May be thinking of the compression seal?  Between trans and PTU?
https://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/95195/leaky-ford-ptu

It mentions to replace both seals, the compression and link shaft (ptu to halfshaft) seals, which makes sense since both are "violated" when the PTU is removed.  The output shaft seal however remains intact, as the output flange is not touched.