It might be time to remove LMS from this forum, vote up and let me know

[GhostlyGrenade]

Well, I've always heard people are more likely to complain instead of praise. Basically you are more motivated to make a bad review or post than a good one.

If we were able to survey all SHOs tuned by LMS, what would the ratio of satisfied customers be?

 

[StinkinLinkin13]

Yea... There is no ignorance here. I've been on this board for over 2 years now and read and heard the good and the bad... My experience was good. That's it. If you don't like that I and others have had a good overall experience than that's too bad for you. Unfortunately these boards can become very fanboyish. SSM vs Dicunzolo this vendor vs that vendor... LMS - S-I *** insert future tuner here*** hate bandwagon etc... That being said I don't claim LMS is for everyone... It all depends on you and your goals. I went to another tuner looking for more because I reached my limit with LMSs canned tunes. Well I got more in the way of a rod through the block. I DO NOT BLAME THAT TUNER and I'm not going to go on a personal vendetta to destroy their reputation. Quite honestly once I get my car situation settled. If everything goes well I will probably resume where we left off... Anyway I'm not going to go back and forth with the dead set haters I understand their view and its fair enough. I have my own view as everyone else does... At this point if you're going to ban LMS than you might as well ban anyone that has anything positive to say about them or their experience with them or even so much as mentions them.

 

[SHOdded]

Alrightey then.  Not seeing any further progress in this topic towards clarifying why one should vote one way or the other.  Let's focus instead on voting and racking up those numbers!

 

[Macgyver]

This is as simple as the SSM and ADM Engine mounts.

We all have our opinions. We are all big boys. We can spend our money where we want. The more vendors. The better it is for the Platform.

 

[ZSHO]

I think each esteemed member is entitled to their own opinion without compromise!
Please be well and stay safe everyone. Z

 

[Dxlnt1]

All things being equal, maybe this poll should include year of car in order to validate. Granted I have 4 other cars I drive so the SHO is not a daily driver. But I have NOT had any issues with the tune. I do occassionally get the HARD 1-2 shift and as others have stated was told (not sure I believed) that it was normal. Even the dealer made comments to that affect.

Maybe banning is too harsh a term. Maybe censoring them is better? And can be honed in their comments on 2013+ cars vs pre 2012 cars. Just a wild thought. They have contributed and pioneered a lot for the community, maybe profit got in the way of their progress. And if word gets out that one of  the biggest ecoboost forums is censoring or banning them, their ways could change. Up until now its just been one complaint at a time. THis board represents ???? members of various vehicles that could certainly impact their bottom line!

Lastly, after being here maybe 5-7 years  now, I would more than likely NOT got with LMS if I was new here. But when I came they were big/bad/best ****! Thats not the case anymore!

Just my 2 cents

 

[ridered74]

What I would like to see is stats for all vendors/tuners. A review system of sorts. Actual verified data and numbers.

Agreed, and not just one trip down a dragstrip. That's what I like about dragy, I can load a tune go make 10-15 pulls and get an idea of about how that tune is going to run. Load a different tune and go make another 10-15 pulls.

As for datalog stats, I'd love to see WOT #'s for various vendors. PSI, timing and especially fuel pressure. My gearhead tune stays at 2900+ psi until I let off the gas.

The one thing I was impressed with about the LMS E30 tune was that the boost was pretty steady at 15 PSI and only about 15-20 hundredths slower than my gearhead tune, while the wastegate % was about 10% lower across the run than what i normally see.

Some people long term would prefer that, as it could lead to your turbos lasting longer. Me? Gimme those extra two tenths, I want to be faster even if it means I replace my turbos a little sooner.

LMS did send me the 93 V17 tune today so I will soon be running the rest of the E30 out of my car and doing some test tuns for data on the updated LMS tune.

 

[SHONuf]

Seems like emotions are running a little hot.  I know when someone has been burned emotion is definitely going to be present, and that's understandable.  For them.  However, I've seen at least few who've just "heard" negative things so they parrot it.  I'm not sure why those in the EcoBoost community feel so tribal about shops/vendors/tuners.  Why it must be an all or nothing approach?  Like we see this with Torrie and his SCT tunes vs Livernois.  We see it with SSM and Dicunzolo.  It just goes on and on.  Why? 

I guarantee there's plenty of folks that have LMS parts/tunes and don't have problems.  I'm one of them.  I personally have their tuner and thermostat and it's never let me down in 4 years.  Got my tunes the same day I requested it.  So no, I haven't ever experienced any issues.  Does that mean I need to go to them for everything, crap all over other shops, and be a fanboy?  Not at all.  I didn't like what they offered in terms of Intake so I went someplace else.  I didn't like their offerings for exhaust or downpipes so I had custom ones made.  Just buy what you want from where you want.  Vote with your dollars.  That's my two cents. 

I'm sorry to say this is one of the primary reasons I don't frequent the forums much: just too much negativity and bad vibes.  Which is a shame because I've learned so much here from helpful, experienced members and it's been a massive help.  But the reason I don't really use social media is kind of the same reason that I don't use the forums much.

 

[Jordan]

Seems like emotions are running a little hot.  I know when someone has been burned emotion is definitely going to be present, and that's understandable.  For them.  However, I've seen at least few who've just "heard" negative things so they parrot it.  I'm not sure why those in the EcoBoost community feel so tribal about shops/vendors/tuners.  Why it must be an all or nothing approach?  Like we see this with Torrie and his SCT tunes vs Livernois.  We see it with SSM and Dicunzolo.  It just goes on and on.  Why? 

I guarantee there's plenty of folks that have LMS parts/tunes and don't have problems.  I'm one of them.  I personally have their tuner and thermostat and it's never let me down in 4 years.  Got my tunes the same day I requested it.  So no, I haven't ever experienced any issues.  Does that mean I need to go to them for everything, crap all over other shops, and be a fanboy?  Not at all.  I didn't like what they offered in terms of Intake so I went someplace else.  I didn't like their offerings for exhaust or downpipes so I had custom ones made.  Just buy what you want from where you want.  Vote with your dollars.  That's my two cents. 

I'm sorry to say this is one of the primary reasons I don't frequent the forums much: just too much negativity and bad vibes.  Which is a shame because I've learned so much here from helpful, experienced members and it's been a massive help.  But the reason I don't really use social media is kind of the same reason that I don't use the forums much.

My qualms with LMS comes from my 3 biggest competitors for the platform record. Every single one of them has been burned by LMS.

BPD was burned by LMS on his big build and I don't need to get into that
Ryan Spencer's LMS built motor lasted all of 6 days before he had to replace it with another one
802SHO was repetitively told that it was his car that had issues and not their tuning considering his was only running 10 psi.

These are all friends of mine and I would consider them "elite members" in terms of pushing the platform. Nobody else is really close other than some nonparticipating members that have ran an 11.6 or something along those lines. 3 out of 3 of them all have been burned by LMS. I am not trying to critique you but, in my opinion, we need to stop letting others get burned. The whole "let your dollars do the speaking" thing is nonsense. Just because you haven't been hit by a car doesn't mean you that you know it's a bad idea to be. We learn from other people's experiences and let that form/shape our entire lives.

If I were in the place where I were looking for a built motor and I didn't know about the issues my 3 good friends have had I would probably buy it, but knowing the issues that so many have had I know to steer far away. It's a matter of morals at this point. Could you own and operate a business and feel okay at the end of the day knowing you took customers for a ride. There is plenty more to LMS issues than I have stated here in. Just a little bit more of my 2 cents.

 

[SHONuf]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

 

[ZSHO]

Please be respectful but mindful towards one's or others opinions! Don't want this Topic to steer off course.. TIA. Z

 

[Jordan]

Once again with the first hand logic. Like I said I don't have to be hit by a car to know it's bad. I'm sure all of us have looked up a restaurant to eat at and wouldn't touch the 2/5 stars place if we knew there was a 4/5 or better spot that gave the same type of food. The entire world lives off experiences of others.

 

[sm105k]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.  Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.       

 

[Macgyver]

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.  Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.     

I have modded this forum since near day one and in NO way is this true.......

https://www.jukeforums.com

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.  Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.     

Does that allegation include EBPF?

 

[sm105k]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.  Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.     

Does that allegation include EBPF?

Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for no reason... to people on the multiple sides of this discussion.

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

 

[sm105k]

We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

We should shut down comments. This is gonna cause a lot of butt hurt... for now reason...

Leave the poll, shutdown the comments.

This comment is exactly what I am talking about.

Honestly dude, I didn’t even read all the comments, I started but then they just turned into finger pointing and pitting SHO owner against SHO owner.

This community is too small for this crap...

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

This is kind of what I mean right here.  Your* biggest qualm is not your own experience but rather the experience of others. Three people you respect, admire, and compete with so instead of basing your opinion of an entity based off your own interactions, you're forming an opinion vicariously through their experiences.  That's not to say we don't do this when asking a friend about a restaurant or reading a review on Amazon for a tool we're looking at.  But, when it comes to shops I personally prefer first hand accounts.

I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "we need to stop letting others get burned." We all collectively have zero control over what others do with their cash.  Removing them from the forums will certainly not put them out of business or prevent people from doing business with them.

Regardless that's about all I've got to say about this.  I'm clocking out of this discussion.  Do as you please.

So if your friend got burned by a company, would you endorse that company to another individual?

This question is completely relevant to this post.  Most tuners are endorsed by word of mouth esp by posts on forums like this.  Limiting the discussion and not letting other express themselves is censorship, which most of the time is protecting the company screwing over the customer.

I have seen this time and time again on other Forums.  Company X pays a monthly fee to Forum X.  Company X starts doing shady things and screws customers.  Forum X members start posting negatively about company.  Company X puts pressure on Forum X.  Forum X does not want to lose revenue.  Forum X covers for Company X with either censorship/suppression, ultimately leading to customers getting screwed because they don't know any better.  Happens on every forum.     

Does that allegation include EBPF?

Not that I have seen because I am pretty sure Mike posted the poll. I don't know if there is a vendor fee for this forum. In forums that do charge a fee, the vendor usually gets preferred treatment. Obviously because of revenue. However, LMS has gotten some special treatment in the past when things starting getting spicy before...

This is probably why there is almost a 2 to 1 ratio to remove LMS.

Unless something changed during my extended absence, EBPF takes no money from vendors.

It is a delicate balance protecting the membership from predatory vendors and vendors from members that place false blame without due diligence. Needlessly chasing away vendors when the vendor pool is admittedly shallow due to our platform is also a consideration.

It is my rule to always be a tiny bit biased towards the membership since, IMHO, the vendors hold the power.