LEOS

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panther427

New member
I wanted to say thank you for those of our members and extended family members in law enforcement and emergency response. The recent developments have been very horrible.

But I also wanted to discuss the issues. I feel like certain agencies I have encountered have the attitude of everyone is a suspect until otherwise proven. Even in a non contact situation. Such as saying hello at a gas station. I do have friends and family in the emergency response world. Its hard to see certain groups act like that.

First two positive experiences. Last year at the open track might at the drag strip.  Which by the way is sponsored by the highway patrol and other city and county departments. I was able to have a nice conversation with the officers. When I approached them they did not react with fear or any visible sign of distress. We talked about several issues and then we agreed to run there patrol patrol cars against mine down the strip. They usually run a couple passes a night with the lights going for fun.

My other recent positive contact was with my local county sheriffs office. I seen them at a gas station this past winter and talked to them about road conditions. Winter tires and other simple things.

My most recent experience. Just this week in fact. My wife got a speeding ticket. I had a question about some of the information on the ticket and the city attorney said to go ask an officer. Now this was before the shootings happened. Apparently I had a posture or demeanor that alarmed the officer because he took a step back and half Moved his hand down to his belt. I seen that and stopped up short and continued to ask my question.  Just seemed odd. It was inside the court room between appearances of the judge. I know this 3rd situation is different from the first two. But it kinda shocked me how his reaction was

But seriously thanks for all your hard work and stay safe out there
 
It's hard being a LEO, I can imagine, establishing that line of trust/distrust with the public/"unknown entities".  As for any individual officer, we don't know what the summation of experiences are that led to that reaction at that point in time, but normally, for the avg Joe, that reaction might be somewhat scary for sure.

Just glad things turned out OK :)
 
Law enforcement officers!!!!

The people who leave their family every day to go to work and put their lives in between the danger out there and our families for a meager at best pay rate.

Any given stop could be their last, they have zero idea of who is actually behind the wheel of any given car on any given stop...

They are forced to make life & death decisions in seconds....

My family and I are truly greatful for what they do on a daily basis and stand with them 100% in this time of misguided hate.

Godspeed to all you officers out there, you are in our prayers.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 
I certainly agree that the LEO are the TRUE Hero's in our community's and should be Respected for what they do everyday which is Protect and Serve,its IMO the Media and other such affiliations that seem to exasperate such conditions and should Praise calm and Peace throughout all junctions of the community's especially at a such fragile moment,please be safe and may you all live long and prosper my friends.  Z
 
I don't mean to revive an old thread but I was an LEO in NJ but moved to Brooklyn so I can go NYPD (currently in the process).  People don't realize how hard this job can be and not so much with the work itself but the way it is currently being vilified by the public (those that do). 

I know you said you had a question about procedure or the ticket, anything you need me to help explain for you?
 
SHOnUup said:
Law enforcement officers!!!!

The people who leave their family every day to go to work and put their lives in between the danger out there and our families for a meager at best pay rate.

Any given stop could be their last, they have zero idea of who is actually behind the wheel of any given car on any given stop...

They are forced to make life & death decisions in seconds....

My family and I are truly greatful for what they do on a daily basis and stand with them 100% in this time of misguided hate.

Godspeed to all you officers out there, you are in our prayers.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

A persons decision to accept ANY profession comes with its own inherit dangers. Firemen, electricians, doctors, lawyers and such. ALL of which have encountered some form of violence against them. And even in higher percentages. But firemen do not arrive on a scene and take a stand that this person who called for help may have self induced there injuries. Therefore, I will NOT assist. Nor do doctors say this patient in the emergency room MIGHT be HIV positive, therefore I will NOT treat them. Heroes go ALL in ALL the time. Full well knowing and accepting that at anytime the bottom can fall out.

I respect the job that LEO's have to do. But I know and respect me even more. I would NOT accept that position because EVERY stop or encounter I would make, my weapon is drawn. I know my limitations. I have trust issues with people and it would be dangerous for me to be in a position where I am expected to be peace maker in certain situations. Because I have permission to deliver fear doesn't mean I should. Especially if its intentional. SOME officers operate under the perspective that everyone is a physical danger to them. And therefore take a position of defense or offense  so to speak. And ANY motion or verbiage being as subjective as all encounters are can be a perceived threat. Which means almost ANY action by officers is justified.

What some officers need to take into consideration is that the people they encounter, are people too. With issues, stresses, concerns, thoughts, frustrations and so much going on around them, they may NOT be at there best either. And people are subject to react just as officers are. If someone reaches out to touch you, and you are not expecting or wanting that contact you pull back. Doesn't mean you are being violent. But that action with an officer constitutes resisting arrest. And the officers perception of that is now paramount. Resistance is misdemeanor and can quickly escalate to felony status. Oh, I truly understand and believe that some suspects need, deserve and have more than earned a good tune while being arrested.

My point with all this people, including LEO's need to have common respect for people. Both sides. At the same time, LEO's ALWAYS have law and order on their side. And as tragic as this may sound, if the first officer is killed, his backup will most definitely rectify the situation. Yeah it sucks if you are that one sacrifice. But it also sucks to be on the business end an over zealous, nervous person with a gun. If law enforcement admits some of these actions were mistakes in judgement, I think our nation is more able to heal. But vilifying people for the sake of justifying a mistake in judgement will ALWAYS beg screams of inequality. Incidentally, I would money that a very high percentage of everyone on this board has something in their background that could be deemed as questionable behaviors. But it also doesn't mean that is the life you lead.
 
I personally don't think anyone that hasn't been a cop should make judgements about how a cop should conduct their daily business. There are so many more factors to consider than one might expect. Most cops get a meager few weeks of training to prepare them for a job that is the most widely hated by the people that are the most likely to commit a crime.

I've been to Iraq where I watched friends get killed, and it was less stressful than being a cop. The life of a sheepdog is not a pleasant one.
 
I'm just glad to not be a LEO and always glad when I also don't encounter one.  I don't want their job nor do I want to be a part of their business life.
 
I think that may have come across more abrasive than intended, but I can't help but take slight offense to some of things people assume about officers.
 
I respect the job they do and I know it must be tough. I really wish they got more training. I hear it is as short as 19 weeks in a lot of places. How do you teach everything they really need to know and make it second nature in a high stress situation in 19 measly weeks?

We really do not value education enough in the US I think, just pay it lip service top-to-bottom because budgets.


This is not an easy or safe job, it really seems like we throw these folks to the wolves with barely enough to know how to defend themselves then expect them to make judgement calls that are split second and would need a damn crystal ball to begin with.

I don't blame the cops for the problems. I blame us.
 
Ok I just want to clarify something to everyone about the training.  This is my own personal experience that I went through so I cannot speak for every dept or state for that matter.  When I was hired off the civil service list, I went through a medical background, a physical background, criminal history check, psych evaluation, an investigator coming to not only my house but to my neighbors houses.  I went through a few months of what is called "In-house" training where you learn your department procedures, how it goes, etc.  THEN i went to the academy.  My academy class was 30 weeks from start to graduation.  While I was in the academy, there was an PO that was killed in the LOD.  We went to the funeral (he was also a friend of mine).  It showed us what this job was about.  We watched training films for hours some days.  Some PO's survived, some didn't and you can hear them yell and scream in pain and hoping help comes.  We saw videos where guys were wrong and how to avoid that situation.  After we all graduated, we spent 1 year on probation where we could be fired at any time for any reason as long as it was a job performance issue.  I spent my first year in the Superior Court which was good because I learned the laws and saw them applied.  THEN I went to Patrol.  I was placed with an FTO for a few months riding with them daily and having to do report after report.  Hell, one of the Sgt.'s at the time (he is now the Captain in charge of all the patrol squads) made us what reports titled: "What I learned in Patrol today."

Here's the best part....I have to do it all over again for the NYPD but back then I was 22-23 compared to now when I'm 30+
 
30 is better than 19 but still. Private industry wont accept someone to do paperwork for anything less than 2-4 years of education and cops take on a much bigger responsibility.


I understand if you feel it is enough but I would tend to disagree. If we won't let someone be a fiduciary for less than 100+ weeks of education why do we let police do what they do with so much less?

The high stress situations you can end up in are close to what Jet fighter pilots deal with. The hours and years of training required to make those split second reactions second nature are not guesses, they are known and studies are well published on it.

And yes I think we should pay for that education and you should be able to live while going through it.
 
I can understand your POV when it comes to that.  A lot of times, it's because staffing is so short, they need bodies on the street.  That's why some of the big agencies are hiring 150 at a time and another when they graduate right behind them.  The biggest thing is that we are required to train so often for our dept as well.  Qualifying with weapons, defensive tactics, laws and procedures, Attorney General guidelines, etc.  Plus, all POs are supposed to and are encouraged to train on their own.  Doesn't usually happen because the dept refuses to pay for it and the officer themselves can't afford it.  I used togo to an indoor range 1 every two weeks and shoot a few boxes of ammo.  Then once a month, go to the range and do drills both evasive/tactical and vice versa.  I got a lot of flack from my Admins because I would put in training requests all the time and every single one was denied.
 
And that is sad, a city will pay half a billion dollars for a new stadium but wont pay for needed training or equipment.


You could get people coming into these places with the training needed if it paid, just like any other industry. Which is why I go back to blame us, the voters and the taxpayers. Paying for police is like paying for street maintenance its not sexy or cool like a new convention center or the Olympics coming to town so it gets side lined. You should make more and get way more training none of this is the cop on the street's fault. Like all our critical public servants we should make the jobs so attractive we are turning people away not begging for people and having shortages of manpower.


We do the same kind of thing to our military personnel as well, spending billions on sexy projects or pork barrel while ignoring both folks in now and the vets that put their lives on the line. Its shameful.


Props to the work you do man, its not easy and it can be scary beyond what I can imagine being a average dude on the street.
 
Shortstaffing hits even the military, just ask the youngsters who died in wars having barely turned 18.
 
Thanks man I appreciate it.  I knew I wanted this job when I was 4 years old (it was either this or a mechanic but my parents said no).  Here's something crazy for you to think about when it comes to the pay: I lived and worked in a Northern NJ County (for those in the know, it's Hudson and I'm a born and raised Jersey City kid).  I got on this job being paid a WHOPPING $20,000/year! Now you may think that works out to about a little under $10/hour.  In that same time, I had to pay weekly for union dues, pension, taxes, medical/dental, secondary health, oh and here is the "generous" gift our agency gave us for equipment: 1 ID card, 1 shield, 1 hat device, 1 box of ammo and a good luck for the next 25 years.  I had to buy uniforms, boots, both leather and nylon duty gear, gun, baton, cuffs, spray, etc....everything else!  How about that!? I left my job a while ago.  With switch over the river, I would only take a $2,000 pay cut to start but more OT to balance it out.
 
The academy in Nebraska for everyone except Omaha, Lincoln, and State Patrol is 13 weeks. Then you go to do your department specific field training for as long as they like. Most of the department training is just riding 2up for a few weeks after learning policies so they can feel you out to make sure you're not a psycho. I was lucky to get 8 weeks at my current department because we weren't too short on bodies (granted, I'm also solo all night, unlike the other guys that can count on having other officers around). Now, we're stretched so thin there are guys getting signed off on after just enough field training to learn the street names. Oh, we do have a mandatory 20 hours per year of continued education, so... Lets see, thats usually 1 hour for pistol qual, and 19 hours of whatever fluff they can send us to for free.

Oh boy... I need to get out of this thread. you others talking about how much training you get is making me feel more and more disgruntled.

Omaha and Lincoln get closer to 19 weeks, and State Patrol I think is the only one closer to 30.
 
Don't feel too disgruntled Bot...it isn't much better own our side of the fence either haha

I worked a solo car too on both day and night shift.  The only time I had a partner was for details and if I was working plainclothes that day.  When I first got on the job in 2009, my old dept was short staffed at around 300 MOS, when I left in 2015, they had about 180 MOS.  Guys can't wait to jump ship.  One guy even, graduated the academy on a Friday, went straight to the Admin building , handed in his letter of resignation effective immediately because on Monday he started with a new agency.
 
RichieRich1042 said:
Don't feel too disgruntled Bot...it isn't much better own our side of the fence either haha

I worked a solo car too on both day and night shift.  The only time I had a partner was for details and if I was working plainclothes that day.  When I first got on the job in 2009, my old dept was short staffed at around 300 MOS, when I left in 2015, they had about 180 MOS.  Guys can't wait to jump ship.  One guy even, graduated the academy on a Friday, went straight to the Admin building , handed in his letter of resignation effective immediately because on Monday he started with a new agency.
Click to expand...

By solo, I mean I'm the only one on shift. If I need help, I have to pull from other agencies.
 
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