Livernois T500 build

[bamsho]

After racing a lot over the past 3 years, and talking with way more experienced racers, I have learned this.  Everything is gain in the 60' and 1/8 mile.  If you look at your slip, you will notice time and speed isn't that big as they are in the first 1/8 mile.  Running very low 12's with what we have is awesome.  Yes track location and weather play a big part too.  Also ours weight a lot, so just plain physics comes into play too.  Not many of us are ready to totally strip on down to be a track car.  I know the day is coming, but for now, NADA.

Ok now my personal review on Livernois Standard Meth Injection vs Livernos Direct Port.  First my car had under 1/2 tank of Sunoco 260GT fuel.. 100 Octane.  Both cars are Tuned by Livernois,  one on there dyno and mine just with updated tune files( no dyno tune ), same lowering springs.  So pretty evenly matched carsas you can get. 

So my impressions is that I felt my car pulled harder from the 330' mark to the end of the 1/4.  I don't know why, the direct port should of been closer to my times, even with me on race fuel.  It bothered my some for a couple weeks, I kept wondering why the other car wasn't faster.  Our 60's where right on each other.  I had some tire spin, the other non.  Now the other car after time may go faster, I noticed mine did last year, I gained .250 over the year, so who know. 

SO you guys with with the standard meth setup, I would stay with it, dont think we would gain anything, I think we would go slower.  Just my opinion.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

After racing a lot over the past 3 years, and talking with way more experienced racers, I have learned this.  Everything is gain in the 60' and 1/8 mile.  If you look at your slip, you will notice time and speed isn't that big as they are in the first 1/8 mile.  Running very low 12's with what we have is awesome.  Yes track location and weather play a big part too.  Also ours weight a lot, so just plain physics comes into play too.  Not many of us are ready to totally strip on down to be a track car.  I know the day is coming, but for now, NADA.

Ok now my personal review on Livernois Standard Meth Injection vs Livernos Direct Port.  First my car had under 1/2 tank of Sunoco 260GT fuel.. 100 Octane.  Both cars are Tuned by Livernois,  one on there dyno and mine just with updated tune files( no dyno tune ), same lowering springs.  So pretty evenly matched carsas you can get. 

So my impressions is that I felt my car pulled harder from the 330' mark to the end of the 1/4.  I don't know why, the direct port should of been closer to my times, even with me on race fuel.  It bothered my some for a couple weeks, I kept wondering why the other car wasn't faster.  Our 60's where right on each other.  I had some tire spin, the other non.  Now the other car after time may go faster, I noticed mine did last year, I gained .250 over the year, so who know. 

SO you guys with with the standard meth setup, I would stay with it, dont think we would gain anything, I think we would go slower.  Just my opinion.

Thanks for the review! From what I understand is that the direct port meth injection delivers the meth more evenly to each cylinder where as the "old" meth injected way of plugging a nozzle before the TB tends to have more meth going to bank 1 than bank 2. You can see that in the datalogs posted.. bank 1 is almost always running richer by 1%-2% than bank 2.

That being said, the idea from what I believe LMS has said is that with a more even distribution of meth, they can develop a more aggressive tune as the delivery is more consistent for meth so its more predictable. Now, that being said, we can safely max out our motors with the single nozzle setup and have been for years. While the DPM setup looks sweeeeeet and has a more consistent delivery, I am not sold that it adds more value from a performance standpoint being that the difference between banks is only 1%-2% iirc..

And on a stock motor LMS wont go much beyond 450/450 awhp/awtq for safety reasons which is obtainable safely with a single nozzle setup.  There is a reason LMS has a track record of not blowing up motors.

 

 

[bpd1151]

Nice review there Bam_SHO. :thumb:

SBS I concur as well, and from what memory serves me, that difference was nominal between the two setups (pre-TB meth, versus the DPM).

Also, it should be noted, that this platform has consistently proven that the actual drivetrain loss is 23-24%.

That owner should just run it once (weather permitting) the tracks open for the season. That's always the best indicator of all.

***edited my own post, as the 1st/opening post was corrected to display the 395awhp***

May the tail winds be at all of our backs!
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[ZSHO]

Great analysis and discussion by above and appreciate Brian(Bamsho) providing his first hand comparison between the two setups!

But unfortunately have been plagued with Traction issues for quite sometime now with Codes C1B00 & C0062! and below are the most recent posts!
I'm sure there is more to my car but unfortunately lost faith with my Ford dealer and currently with bad terms to say the least!il
I will have to troubleshoot my underlying issues myself and until better results are proven will have to leave it @ that! Cheers my fellow colleagues!  Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8462.0.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7881.45.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7045.0.html

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6676.0.html

 

[SHOdded]

Ugh these persistent issues suck!  In the absence of other symptoms, I would be looking at the wheel speed sensors and tone rings for rust/corrosion/cracks.

 

[Macgyver]

tone rings for rust/corrosion/cracks

What are those?

I would be happy right now for the "No Key Detected" Issue.

 

[ZSHO]

Found this from the Shop Manual! Z

The wheel speed sensor magnetic strips are made up of many magnets arranged in a circle around one side of the wheel bearing in alternating poles, so as the bearing rotates the wheel speed sensor is exposed to alternating north-south magnetic fields. The magnetic strip is located on the side of the wheel bearing facing the vehicle and is part of the wheel bearing and, as such, is serviced with the bearing. Z

 

[StealBlueSHO]

The wheel bearing is part of the hub assembly... I installed a timken on my front driver side when I put my Megan’s in. Not a hard install at all! Maybe a fix for your issue?!?


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[ZSHO]

I had three sets of the Motorcraft wheel Hubs (bearings) replaced under warranty including the thrust washers to no avail! Z

The Timken look like the real deal with the exception of the Moogs which have a better warranty!  Z

Timken Hubs $131.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4975638&cc=1503823&jsn=465

Moog  $164.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7090404&cc=1503823&jsn=467

Centric $184.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8558272&cc=1503823&jsn=468

Motorcraft  $155.79 ea
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2962518&cc=1503823&jsn=466&jsn=466
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2013,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1503823,brake+&+wheel+hub,wheel+bearing+&+hub+assembly,1636

TSB on Thrust washers
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdiQlZKd29scTd0eUU/view

Timken Specs

ABS/Non-ABS (Y/N) N
ABS Type Encoder
Bearing Type BALL
Bolt Circle Diameter B (in) 4.494
Bolt Circle Diameter H (in) #
Bolt Quantity 4.000
Bolt Size (in) M12 x 1.5
Brake Pilot Dia (in) 2.678
Driven_Non Driven Driven
Flange (#) 2.000
Flange Diameter (in) 5.739
Flange Offset (in) 1.690
Flange Shape Trapezoid
Generation Type X
Hub Pilot Dia G (in) 3.823
Lug Bolts_Bolt Holes (#) Y
Roll Form (Y) Y
Spline Quantity 38.000
Wheel Pilot Dia (mm) 63.250
Wheel Stud Qty 5.000
Wheel Stud Size (in) 43832.000

TIMKEN Warranty Information
12 months

 

[StealBlueSHO]

You cannot go wrong with Timken or Moog... both make quality parts. Timken has been in the wheel bearing business a long time.


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[ZSHO]

Here are two more posts since 2014!  Z
I might just go with the Timken and see what happens!

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1750.msg37252.html#msg37252

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2720.msg40392.html#msg40392

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I hammered by car this past track season... Timken has held up splendidly... just make sure you get a new axle nut (or at a minimum put some lock tight around the threads of the one coming off...) which are only a few bucks, and torque it to the right specs. Too tight can ruin a bearing and too loose can as well...

Or just have a shop do it

It took me all of 30 minutes to replace it with air tools and a torque wrench. I think alldata says something like 1.2 hrs for labor.


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[ZSHO]

I think ShoBoat had similar issues with his 13 PP-SHO which found replacing in addition to the Hubs & thrust washer the Halfshaft and outer tie rod seemed to ultimately fix the issue IIRC! Thanks to those who have replied! 

I guess back to the Topic on hand in respect to our esteemed Vendor!  Z

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

What exactly is this Direct port Meth injection you speak of! Lol.  Z

The old one was a single nozzle that went in before the throttle body, now the direct port meth injection is plumbed for each runner on the intake and we also put them to the lowest point on the intake that way there is no crossover from the meth being sprayed

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I think you would need somewhat well north of 400AWHP to break into the 11's, especially on a daily driver setup, but would be happy to be proven wrong.

The problem is no car is really the same and neither are the tracks so anythings possible, anyone can reach times un thought of trust me just takes the right conditions

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I think you would need somewhat well north of 400AWHP to break into the 11's, especially on a daily driver setup, but would be happy to be proven wrong.

Thus my point exactly.

Those who've crossed that 11 barrier, were all/each North of 430 at the wheels.

The #'s posted, although impressive, I would say to crack 11's would be overly optimistic, that's all. No biggie.

I'd like to see it run too. Either way, it's still a SHO and pretty damn cool in my playbook.

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All the SHO's are awesome cars, im not a ford guy but i loved my SHO best driving car ive ever driven so far

 

[ZSHO]

What exactly is this Direct port Meth injection you speak of! Lol.  Z

The old one was a single nozzle that went in before the throttle body, now the direct port meth injection is plumbed for each runner on the intake and we also put them to the lowest point on the intake that way there is no crossover from the meth being sprayed

I was just messing with ya'll! LOL!  Please take a note @ my signature! 
Who is now assigned to this Forum? Thanks!  Z 

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

What exactly is this Direct port Meth injection you speak of! Lol.  Z

The old one was a single nozzle that went in before the throttle body, now the direct port meth injection is plumbed for each runner on the intake and we also put them to the lowest point on the intake that way there is no crossover from the meth being sprayed

I was just messing with ya'll!  Please take a note @ my signature! 
Who is now assigned to this Forum?  Z

I saw that lol, i just figured i would put it out there for anyone new to the forum or new to us! My name is Cody and i've been the one dealing with this forum recently

 

[ZSHO]

What exactly is this Direct port Meth injection you speak of! Lol.  Z

The old one was a single nozzle that went in before the throttle body, now the direct port meth injection is plumbed for each runner on the intake and we also put them to the lowest point on the intake that way there is no crossover from the meth being sprayed

I was just messing with ya'll!  Please take a note @ my signature! 
Who is now assigned to this Forum?  Z

I saw that lol, i just figured i would put it out there for anyone new to the forum or new to us! My name is Cody and i've been the one dealing with this forum recently

I appreciate the quick response! But after speaking to LMS on a multiple occasions during and after having the DPM Setup installed they said under the right conditions,track and much practice the elusive 11's are in the foreseen Horizon! I Guess time will only tell! Thanks!  Z

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

What exactly is this Direct port Meth injection you speak of! Lol.  Z

The old one was a single nozzle that went in before the throttle body, now the direct port meth injection is plumbed for each runner on the intake and we also put them to the lowest point on the intake that way there is no crossover from the meth being sprayed

I was just messing with ya'll!  Please take a note @ my signature! 
Who is now assigned to this Forum?  Z

I saw that lol, i just figured i would put it out there for anyone new to the forum or new to us! My name is Cody and i've been the one dealing with this forum recently

I appreciate the quick response! But after speaking to LMS on a multiple occasions and under the right
conditions and track the elusive 11's are in the foreseen Horizon! I Guess time will only tell! Thanks!  Z

Negative DA is the hail mary for any great pass, just pray for that It can do mysterious things lol