MDesign Intake review-bigmoneycloser

[BiGMaC]

Two questions:
First, does the tab on the side of the MAP sensor needto be below the gromet on the Charge Pipe? I can't remember how stock was or even when I had it on the K&N.
SEcond, what postions should the MAP sensor be in?

So far I love the look of the MDesign intake, performance wise, hard to tell...It snowed and has been extremely cold here in Chicago since I got it. Was -2 this morning.  Only draw back so far, is the whooos sound that I got with the K&N is gone.

The sensor on the intake pipe (the one that was on the OEM airbox) should be at about 7:00, fully inserted (the O-ring slot will be inside the CF tube...I took my O-ring off so it would not have a chance of ingestion by the turbos), and the sensor should be oriented so the widest part is in line with the tube (sensor it self is the bluish thing surrounded by the nylon) to expose the sensor maximally.

Don't need to touch the MAP or the TIP.

 

[WickedSHO]

That is the sensor I was talking about the one on the charge pipe. So don't use the o-ring that came with the kit?
If the o-ring slot should be inside the CF pipe, I don't think I put mine is all the way! 

 

[BiGMaC]

That is the sensor I was talking about the one on the charge pipe. So don't use the o-ring that came with the kit?
If the o-ring slot should be inside the CF pipe, I don't think I put mine is all the way! 

Sorry... Thought you were talking about the turbo intakes, not the hotpipes aka charge pipes... On my car the MAP has only one screw... put it in the same orientation as the OEM.

I had to free up about 1.5" of the sensor wire from the wiring harness to get the slack to seat the sensor to my satisfaction...of course, use the grommet that comes with the CAI kit to hold the sensor. 

My CAI did not come with an O-ring ... My 3BAR MAP had one on it....use it to prevent boost leak.

 

[WickedSHO]

I think I confused myself and maybe you...Sorry.

I am talking about the sensor that is attached to the CAI....I think you gave me the answer I need with your first repsonse.

Sorry about that....

 

[Spartn27]

Ok I'm here to clear some things up!

Use the supplied o-ring to replace the OEM blue o-ring as it is not thick enough and the new one will provide a better seal, you should insert the sensor  fully into the grommet to where the o-ring is not showing. Refer to the pic below for position and there is a link to the install guide as well.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=4043.0

 

[WickedSHO]

Thanks Spartan!

 

[SHOdded]

Reviewing this "classic" article (i.e., going back to the basics), I believe that better air flow is causing better atomization of the fuel, reducing particulate matter/soot emissions.  Since soot seems to primarily be a problem in the cold start to runup range, the air flow is improved AT LEAST through the part throttle range (since most people won't go WOT until engine is warmed up).

...As the fuel enters the air stream, it is pulled apart and broken into even smaller particles. This process can be likened to spraying an aerosol can into the atmosphere. The liquid in the can is pushed from the high pressure in the vessel to the lower pressure in the atmosphere, and is broken into what the consumer would identify as a fine spray. The proper term is atomized...

...The smaller the fuel droplets are, the greater the surface area for a given amount of discharged fuel (in pounds/hour) and, thus, there is more exposure to heat, so the phase change to a vapor becomes much more efficient...

...As the engine speed increases, the velocity through the intake manifold also goes higher, and more of the fuel is atomized than would be at low speeds...

Possibly better injectors with finer atomization patterns would be a solution, but unlikely to be an inexpensive one on a custom basis.

Not GDI related, but this Hot Rod article provides insight into fuel/air interaction.

 

[Spartn27]

Yes this was my assumption as to why people have been seeing less soot on their tailpipes, a more complete and better combustion due to better air/fuel ratios which would create better atomization of the air/fuel mixture when compressed and ignited.

On a side note, for anyone looking for a MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake we currently have 12 remaining for pre-order, details here:

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=4211.msg65511#msg65511

 

[IHeartGroceries]

I don't see it. I don't see what a change so far up the intake tract, and upstream of the turbos and intercooler would have to do with fuel atomization, which is essentially taking place exclusively in the combustion chamber.
There's no flow metering anywhere near there. So airflow seems moot. The one thing it is effectively doing is reducing restriction and perhaps playing a role intake temps and adversely, air charge temps.

Perhaps it is better filtration which is responsible for the soot reduction?

 

[Spartn27]

I could see it with better air fuel ratio due to less restriction, a more linear design that increases air speed and reduced intake air temperatures due to it only using ambient air. The faster the velocity the cooler the air, the cooler the air the denser it is. That helps when the air mixes with fuel in the combustion chamber, compresses and then ignites.

Hopefully with 14 kits out there some member with a dara logging rig can give us some results. We have a member performing a dyno in about 2 weeks.

 

[WickedSHO]

Hey Spartan27, you may have posted this already, but what kind of IAT temps have you seen with your intake? Close to Ambient or closer to air temp per Nav screen?

 

[Spartn27]

I logged 2-3 degrees below ambient via SCT X4, there are pics floating around either in this thread or the original group buy thread.

 

[91hybrid]

How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.

 

[SHOnUup]

How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.

I've noticed that my torque pro display is about 5-10* colder than the cars temp display. Different sensors to read the temp from.

Rich

 

[Spartn27]

How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.

Vehicle in motion creates a true ram air affect increasing the intake air speed = denser/cooler air, I notice temps go down the faster I go. If I cruise on the highway I can maintain a 2 degree difference under ambient.

 

[91hybrid]

So your intake reduces atmospheric pressure causing a state change of the moisture in the air cooling lower than the airs actual temperature. Wait, that is counter intuitive as a pressure reduction would indicate inadequate flow and the moisture is aready a gas.

"Ram air" is a way to try to increase pressure in the intake not temperature. Temperature drops TO ambient is a side effect assuming sufficient flow and thermal differentials.

No intake will ever cause the air to be cooler than ambient (unless there is extra chemistry or phase changes involved). The air coming out front of a box fan is really the same temp as the air going into the back of the box fan. Even though it's velocity is exponentially increased.

Keep the selling points physics based and not random data..

I think your design is sweet looking, but I think you are over selling it based on hearsay. (Figured you'd like that terminology)

"Data is great, but if rather discuss facts"

John

 

[Spartn27]

So your intake reduces atmospheric pressure causing a state change of the moisture in the air cooling lower than the airs actual temperature. Wait, that is counter intuitive as a pressure reduction would indicate inadequate flow and the moisture is aready a gas.

"Ram air" is a way to try to increase pressure in the intake not temperature. Temperature drops TO ambient is a side effect assuming sufficient flow and thermal differentials.

No intake will ever cause the air to be cooler than ambient (unless there is extra chemistry or phase changes involved). The air coming out front of a box fan is really the same temp as the air going into the back of the box fan. Even though it's velocity is exponentially increased.

Keep the selling points physics based and not random data..

I think your design is sweet looking, but I think you are over selling it based on hearsay. (Figured you'd like that terminology)

"Data is great, but if rather discuss facts"

John

I have never stated that my intake reduces atmospheric pressure nor have I stated it caused a state change, these are terms you have introduced.

What I have said, as others have been reporting as well, is that we are seeing temperatures close to ambient or slightly below while in motion. Below is a run done this morning at a steady speed, near the end is WOT which is why the temperature drops to 23.

http://youtu.be/Co68js7GSQ0

 

[J-Will]

The 'outside temp' sensor and the intake temp sensor are two different instruments. This alone can be the cause of any variations. The position of the sensors is another, the intake one being protected and in a darker (assumingly cooler spot). 

 

[Spartn27]

The 'outside temp' sensor and the intake temp sensor are two different instruments. This alone can be the cause of any variations. The position of the sensors is another, the intake one being protected and in a darker (assumingly cooler spot).

We have a member on the boards who is going to be doing a dyno run in a week or two, one thing I will ask to get data on from the dyno will be the IAT2 data as I believe that is the one after the intercooler. The member is going from a K&N to the MDesign so hopefully we will see the similar results to the AirRaid v. MDesign.

 

[SHOnUup]

If it's possible to dyno it vs. the stock box, I'd suggest that. I think that would be the best one to compare to overall.

Rich