Meth Injection NOT Cooling air charge...

S

StinkinLinkin13

New member
Ok. Been a lil while since I posted. Been working with Brad for several months. Had several issues now and then in what seems like every area... Which yes is frustrating at times but also great because you are at least aware of issues and can address them instead of blind canned tunes.

Anyhow. Here's the current issue that has us a little perplexed. I'm now running E-40 tune plus 100% VP Meth Alky controls kit with M10 nozzle... According to Brad everything looks good fuel wise with no knock retard and stft show meth is being injected and at a percentage Brad feels good about but COOLING is minimal to non-existent at IAT2. It's hot down here but according to him the cooling is less than he's used to seeing/expected.

Quote
"Your short term fuels look good like you are getting the right amount of meth. I generally like to see them somewhere in the xxx range...So its weird that you are there but I don't see the cooling...On the 3rd gear pulls I see some cooling...Not as much as I expect but then on one of the multigear pulls you had around a 40 degree increase over ambient. I don't see how that is possible...Unless the meth isn't atomizing really well. You have fuel pressure, and stft's show meth is there but no cooling?"

Just fyi this Is approximately my 3rd - 4th logs with meth and the results have been consistent. Any thoughts ideas suggestions shoot away... I am gonna have the initial come on a little sooner and the progression a little steeper but as you can read he's seeing the meth in the stft but without much if any cooling... I have my EPP Hot Pipes and the nozzle drilled just after the elbow facing up. Seems to be a common install point. Thanks in advance..
 
How new is the meth fuel?  I was using last years leftovers and now with fresh meth it’s cooling much better!  I was seeing temps rise before but after it dropped substantially.  Normally it would drop and stay low, it would drop and come back up a hair.  My meth nozzles are after the sensor.  I always thought that’s where the nozzle(s) needed to be.


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StinkinLinkin13 said:
Ok. Been a lil while since I posted. Been working with Brad for several months. Had several issues now and then in what seems like every area... Which yes is frustrating at times but also great because you are at least aware of issues and can address them instead of blind canned tunes.

Anyhow. Here's the current issue that has us a little perplexed. I'm now running E-40 tune plus 100% VP Meth Alky controls kit with M10 nozzle... According to Brad everything looks good fuel wise with no knock retard and stft show meth is being injected and at a percentage Brad feels good about but COOLING is minimal to non-existent at IAT2. It's hot down here but according to him the cooling is less than he's used to seeing/expected.

Quote
"Your short term fuels look good like you are getting the right amount of meth. I generally like to see them somewhere in the xxx range...So its weird that you are there but I don't see the cooling...On the 3rd gear pulls I see some cooling...Not as much as I expect but then on one of the multigear pulls you had around a 40 degree increase over ambient. I don't see how that is possible...Unless the meth isn't atomizing really well. You have fuel pressure, and stft's show meth is there but no cooling?"

Just fyi this Is approximately my 3rd - 4th logs with meth and the results have been consistent. Any thoughts ideas suggestions shoot away... I am gonna have the initial come on a little sooner and the progression a little steeper but as you can read he's seeing the meth in the stft but without much if any cooling... I have my EPP Hot Pipes and the nozzle drilled just after the elbow facing up. Seems to be a common install point. Thanks in advance..
Click to expand...

The only thing that comes to mind is droplet size.  Large drops vaporize much slower and will not provide as much pre-IAT2 sensor cooling.  They may be evaporating and burning correctly in the cylinder,  and thus providing data to the ECU to know to pull fuel and change the readings on the STFT .. but not fast enough to affect the air temp pre-sensor.

With larger nozzels,  lower pressure on the pump will form fatty drops.  Since this is a Alky set up contact them to see if upping the pump pressure will help make smaller droplets sooner. 

Also ask about the scaling of the pumps output at lower/mid and high rev ranges.  I am not 100% sure but it would stand to reason for me to think that with progressive meth,  cooling wont occur until your deep into the revs+air velocity.

hmm one more idea,  also ask if the pump setup can be altered to be full on/off (no scaling,  just 100% instant pump pressure) you could see if the progressive pump pressure is holding your temps back.
 
I'll  start with I have zero experience  with methanol injection. That being said, if everything else looks good in terms of data, is it possible that iat2 sensor values are skewed? It wouldn't be the first time a sensor of any type has been degraded without completely dropping out.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Meth is maybe a few months old since opened. Stays sealed but idk.

Definitely trying tweaking the pressure turn on and progression..so far to no avail. On the fuel trims brad likes where that's at.

Definitely considered that temp sensor may be flaky... Honestly not sure what sensor it is... Is it intergraded with the MAP on the intake manifold? Thanks again.
 
This looks normal in this specific example, the drop rate and drop temp are VERY similar to me. Keep in mind with a starting point of 85, there is lessroom to drop, and the closer to ambient the more meth it will take, and the less effective it will be like a swamp cooler.

Jamie's drops HARD.. even with a 130f start point he drops waaaayyy faster than me at the same intake temp... I wonder how much pressure he's pushing and if his nozzel is "different". ??

Overall from my perspective you are spot on..

Phone post sorry for errrors
 
(Jaime's) is my log... I'm running the Alky Control system at the recommended settings (slightly more aggressive) with the kit including M10 nozzle. That is the problem. I get the initial hit and cooling but it begins to fade fairly quickly and start heating back up. Not sure why. The green active led remains on the entire pull indicating the system is working and at pressure yet temp still rises during the pull.
 
Ok, reading on a phone I messed that up.  It does spike up pretty quickly, mine creeps backup as well but not that fast.  My only go to though is there is an issue with the IC.. ? Obstructions?  Flow into the engine bay impeaded? 

Ypur not running without the plastic shield  on the bottom by chance?
 
Well the impression I get from brad is that meth can overcome a lot in its cooling abilities.

I do have a large trans cooler and I actually don't use the under belly shield on my car. I really don't know that would hurt cooling that much that the meth couldn't maintain/overcome it?

Trans cooler image from my 13 but installed the same exact way on this current 16..
 
You def need the GH intercooler.  I'm running it and have Alky Controls Meth Injection.  Using the M15 nozzle, I can get AIT2 below ambient.  Using the M10, I get close to ambient depending on how hot it is outside. 

I upgraded to an XDI35 HPFP, and now see no benefit in running methanol now.
 
I ordered an M15 nozzle. See how she responds to that. Brad has stated that he doesn't feel its affecting performance overall. Obviously not running meth dependent right now. But if I do end up going back to LMS E85 Meth tune I wanna be sure meth is not waning out on my top end as well. Idk. We will see.
 
There still would be some benefit to running the meth, insomuch as for its' respective cleaning capabilities on this DI platform.

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bamsho said:
You def need the GH intercooler.  I'm running it and have Alky Controls Meth Injection.  Using the M15 nozzle, I can get AIT2 below ambient.  Using the M10, I get close to ambient depending on how hot it is outside. 

I upgraded to an XDI35 HPFP, and now see no benefit in running methanol now.
Click to expand...

Meth is awesome, but is very static in it's cooling ability.  Your intake temps spike very high and overcome the 25f-50f worth of cooling it can provide.  Depending on DA, humidity, droplet size and pressure it can very in effectiveness.. I would investigate a GH IC if your willing to drop more cash. 

We have seen this before on a couple other cars where the intakes spike super high, but never saw root cause. 

If the bottom plate will fit with the trans cooler try it back on,. Remove the REAR TOP hood weather strip and the FRONT TOP weather strip and see if air flow redirection helps at all
 
StinkinLinkin13 said:
Thanks for the input guys. Will keep you posted on results...
Click to expand...

Where is the nozzle positioned? What does your boost look like? Did you tap into the 3BAR for your boost reference? All of these can effect how the meth is spraying and when it cuts off..

Remember.. the air temp is being read by the 3Bar on the intake manifold, if you have a boost reference adapter there, or a poorly positioned nozzle it can effect how the car see the cooled air.

Same goes for the boost reference, the meth system kicks in based on what it sees from the same 3bar map sensor if piped in that.. you can also use the included 3bar reference adapter that gets plumed into the vacuum lines.

 
Attached images of engine hot pipes and meth line. Brass nozzle is underneath facing upward. No boost reference adapter... Tapped into 3bar. According to the alky system leds meth is on and at pressure through duration of the entire pull... I have the settings on alky controls system set slightly more aggressively than Julio suggest. Just in an attempt to see if it helped. 10 o'clock "turn on", 2 o'clock "initial",  7 control box.
 
Dumb question i forgot to ask ... What PSI are you running the turbos ?  Anything past 15.5 pounds generates a #$%^ load of heat ..
 
Yea I'm sure its higher than that. Pretty much pegging out the turbos at this point. Also having some top end boost taper for reasons yet known..
 
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