OEM Stereo Upgrade #2: Prep for Install

S

SRT82ECOBOOST

New member
First off I want to say thank you to everyone for all the input that was given for planning phase of this project. Now it is time to plan the install. Here is what will be going into the vehicle:
-(2) Boston Acoustics GT-2200 amplifiers
    -http://www.bostonacoustics.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?Pid=GT2200(BostonAcoustics)&CatId=CarAudio(BostonAcoustics_US)&SubCatId=
    -(1) Amp to power the front soundstage with 200W x 2 @ 4 ohms
    -(1) Amp to power the subwoofer with 700W x 1 @ 4 ohms
-(1) Boston Acoustics PRO50SE
    -http://www.bostonacoustics.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=CarAudio(BostonAcoustics_US)&CatId=FullRangeSpeakers(BostonAcoustics_US)&SubCatId=PRO(BostonAcoustics_US)&Pid=Pro50SE(BostonAcoustics)
    -To be placed for the front soundstage
-(1) JL Audio CS110RGH-W3v3 Powerwedge subwoofer
      -http://www.jlaudio.com/cs110rg-w3v3-car-audio-powerwedge-subwoofer-systems-93195
-(1) Audiocontrol LC2i LOC
      -http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/17612/645207/OEM-Integration/LC2i-2ch-Line-Out-Converter-with-AccuBASStm-and-Subwoofer-Control.html

So at this point I think I have all the pieces in place for a nice little upgrade over the OEM system. Here are some additional comments/questions for those that are in the know:
-I am just going to try the Audiocontrol LC2i LOC to start off with to drive th amplifiers. I know many have said that a processor is necessary, but I feel this will be a good starting point as a processor can easily be added after the initial install.
-My installer is going to put this all in for $300. Is that a reasonable price?
-My installer is also recommending to mount the tweeter as close as possible to the mid-bass, possible even coaxially as the speakers I have chosen have that option. I have used this setup in previous vehicles and prefer it slightly to an A-pillar location that has the tweeters screaming in your ears. The only issue becomes the height of the soundstage. Thoughts?


 
Fast SHO said:
That is a good install price.  I'd add sound deadening to the front door panels.
Click to expand...
I mentioned this to my installer and he did not feel it was necessary due to the build quality of these cars.
 
Price is definitely good. Think it's gonna rock!  :thumb:

I'll be interested in how you feel the system performs w/o a processor. It would be great to avoid extra components.

Regardless of quality I'd add a little premium sound deadener.  Anything that decreases ambient noise improves the performance of your system simply because you hear more music in general and fewer harmonic reverberations at higher volumes, especially at the extreme highs and lows.

If the A pillar position of the tweets is giving you ear fatigue you might consider a lens (narrow strip of tape crossing in front of the dome of the tweeter).  Higher position improves stereo perception, closer to mids keeps the music in phase... it's a trade-off.  Also my experience has been that metallic tweeters are harsh in comparison to soft domes like silk.

Enjoy the system.... bottom line is if you can't hear it, don't pay for it!
 
SRT82ECOBOOST said:
Fast SHO said:
That is a good install price.  I'd add sound deadening to the front door panels.
Click to expand...
I mentioned this to my installer and he did not feel it was necessary due to the build quality of these cars.
Click to expand...

Considering I rattle my door panels with the sony system, you are going to need some.
 
... and when the sub starts hitting you'll find every rattle in the car... usually takes me about a week to get them all stopped after a new install.  Just do it!
 
Fast SHO said:
SRT82ECOBOOST said:
Fast SHO said:
That is a good install price.  I'd add sound deadening to the front door panels.
Click to expand...
I mentioned this to my installer and he did not feel it was necessary due to the build quality of these cars.
Click to expand...

Considering I rattle my door panels with the sony system, you are going to need some.
Click to expand...
The OEM Sony system in my car does not rattle the doors with the front speakers and that is with a full range signal. I will be high passing at 70 Hz so there will be even less bass energy in the door. And as far as road noise, I just reviewed a test that was done to see what Dynamat actual does to help. After completely covering the door of an F-150, the on the road noise floor on dropped 2 db. On the road I am very rarely doing critical listening, so I don't think the road noise will be that intrusive to the quality of the audio.
 
Interesting SRT... I'll admit most of my installs were near complete interior, floor, firewall, and headliner coverage... that generally got me a 6-9dB drop in road noise, so I have no doubt about what you read being true.  This dropped exterior noise in the vehicle 75-88% over stock.

Still, if you consider that every 3 dB decrease in sound energy is generally a 50% decrease in perceived volume and an identical increase is a doubling... 2 dB may be significant for you...

I don't have stock in Dynamat  LOL, but I have helped build a national sound quality champ and a national SPL champ.
 
BiGMaC said:
Interesting SRT... I'll admit most of my installs were near complete interior, floor, firewall, and headliner coverage... that generally got me a 6-9dB drop in road noise, so I have no doubt about what you read being true.  This dropped exterior noise in the vehicle 75-88% over stock.

Still, if you consider that every 3 dB decrease in sound energy is generally a 50% decrease in perceived volume and an identical increase is a doubling... 2 dB may be significant for you...

I don't have stock in Dynamat  LOL, but I have helped build a national sound quality champ and a national SPL champ.
Click to expand...
With the Dynamat applied to all the areas you mentioned, I would agree on the drop of 6-9 dB would be within reason. But just doing the doors was the test I was citing. So you stop the intrusion on the front doors while still having the intrusion over the 80% of the remaining cabin area. So with a 5 month old vehicle I just can not see tearing it apart, especially when I think the cabin is pretty quiet in this car. I do appreciate the quality input though.
 
Dxlnt1 said:
Anyone have any reviews of the Scosche system?
http://www.scosche.com/2010-up-ford-taurus-double-din-and-din-with-pocket-installation-kit

My initial upgrade plans was as you guys spoke. But with this, since I don't have navigation, it can now be a part of the stereo. Now a whole slew of head units open up. And, all climate controls become touch screen operated.
Click to expand...

I don't like it.  Looks funky and is too expensive IMO.

I've always wondered if it wouldn't be better to just put a single din in the glove box or arm rest if you are just looking for SQ so that the stock climate controls etc..  could remain the same.
 
Another idea that was brought up to me by the owner of JMLaudio, he stopped by my shop and hung out with me for a little bit the other day so I always like to pick his brain.

He mentioned he could de-code the factory radio. Basically taking out all the built in processors and THX programming out of the radio, and it would make it a flat signal no matter where the volume knob is set. He said thats the only way he feels is the correct way to keep the factory radio and put a good SQ system into the newer fords. Then went on about how even if you run a processor on our cars, since the EQ the radio puts out is constantly changing, the only other half assed way without decoding the radio, is to put the volume at a constant spot on the radio(never touch it again) then use the EQ to level everything out at the one specific volume setting, then just adjust the volume on the EQ to raise and lower your volume from now on.

Im just wondering in my eyes if its worth all the time and money over what I already have. I love the way mine sounds right now, wouldnt mind getting better amps, but besides that I think ive pretty much hit the wall of point of diminishing returns. I mean, I might buy that Kicker Front Stage I can get for $100 bucks so I can get rid of my cheap Line out put converters, but thats about it.
 
Kolk1 said:
Another idea that was brought up to me by the owner of JMLaudio, he stopped by my shop and hung out with me for a little bit the other day so I always like to pick his brain.

He mentioned he could de-code the factory radio. Basically taking out all the built in processors and THX programming out of the radio, and it would make it a flat signal no matter where the volume knob is set. He said thats the only way he feels is the correct way to keep the factory radio and put a good SQ system into the newer fords. Then went on about how even if you run a processor on our cars, since the EQ the radio puts out is constantly changing, the only other half assed way without decoding the radio, is to put the volume at a constant spot on the radio(never touch it again) then use the EQ to level everything out at the one specific volume setting, then just adjust the volume on the EQ to raise and lower your volume from now on.

Im just wondering in my eyes if its worth all the time and money over what I already have. I love the way mine sounds right now, wouldnt mind getting better amps, but besides that I think ive pretty much hit the wall of point of diminishing returns. I mean, I might buy that Kicker Front Stage I can get for $100 bucks so I can get rid of my cheap Line out put converters, but thats about it.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what the JL Audio Cleansweep does.
 
I will ask the questions because I just do not know the answers.
-Does anyone know where the sound shaping for the Sony system takes place? Is the DSP in the head unit or in the amplifier?
-Can you hook up aftermarket amps before the audio signal passes through Sony amplifier?
 
I havent really looked into it, just what he was mentioning.

Would I need to get the CL-SS1 on top doing a CL441dsp? Or would the CL441 be enough by itself?

Guy on ebay is selling both used for a combined price of $225. 
 
Kolk1 said:
Another idea that was brought up to me by the owner of JMLaudio, he stopped by my shop and hung out with me for a little bit the other day so I always like to pick his brain.

He mentioned he could de-code the factory radio. Basically taking out all the built in processors and THX programming out of the radio, and it would make it a flat signal no matter where the volume knob is set. He said thats the only way he feels is the correct way to keep the factory radio and put a good SQ system into the newer fords. Then went on about how even if you run a processor on our cars, since the EQ the radio puts out is constantly changing, the only other half assed way without decoding the radio, is to put the volume at a constant spot on the radio(never touch it again) then use the EQ to level everything out at the one specific volume setting, then just adjust the volume on the EQ to raise and lower your volume from now on.

Im just wondering in my eyes if its worth all the time and money over what I already have. I love the way mine sounds right now, wouldnt mind getting better amps, but besides that I think ive pretty much hit the wall of point of diminishing returns. I mean, I might buy that Kicker Front Stage I can get for $100 bucks so I can get rid of my cheap Line out put converters, but thats about it.
Click to expand...

I dealt with the logic of this in my Mazdaspeed 3.  Same problem.  The head unit boosted via mild EQ as the volume was raised, and then a cut was put at the upper volume limit on the bass (to save the cheesy speakers).  This was back in the 3sixty.2 days.  Bottom line, the solution there was to tune the 3sixty.2 at a happy medium listening volume, and in the rare instance that I wanted to "crank it", I would use the auxiliary volume knob which was a pure gain dial.

The Flex's Sony system (my 2010 model) had a similar boost-cut effect, but the MS8 seemed to handle this much better.  My 2013 Non-Sony system is almost dead-flat and is AMAZING sounding.  At full-tilt-boogey my 2013 setup is easily the best sounding system I've created.  Not the loudest but certainly the most realistic and entertaining.  The MS8's spacial processing is my not-so-secret weapon for this.  That, and very aggressive deadening and sealing techniques in the tin-can doors of the Flex.  Also lots of deadener and foam everywhere else.  :)

Bottom line, you can overcome a boost-cut auto EQ by creating a "happy medium" listening volume.  Any louder and chances are your ears will lose sensitivity anyway, and any quieter and you'll not really by listening. 
 
SRT82ECOBOOST said:
So it would be of benefit to have maximum output of the system for half volume on the OEM head unit? I also know this can be locked in with the Mykey setting to have the volume not go beyond a certain setting so you can not over play the system's limit.
It also seems like Audiocontrol addresses the bass roll-off with their Accubass processing:
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/17612/645207/OEM-Integration/Two-Channel-Line-Out-Converter-with-AccuBASStm-and-Subwoofer-Control----LC2i.html
Click to expand...

It becomes an option.  The boost-cut effect isn't very pronounced until the extremes of the dial.  On my 2010 model, I had to adjust the bass output more than I do the 2013, but all I did was cut or boost in the head unit one click up or down, and that's enough compensation.  Also keep in mind that your "reference volume" will often be much louder than the actual recorded volume of the music you play.  Most of the music I play (EDM) is recorded about 3-6dB under my reference volume peak, so there's good headroom.  You guys won't see me recommending any AC products anytime soon though.  I believe they have the technology and capability to be the baddest boys on the block in the processing biz, but they are stuck in the dark ages.  By choice.

If someone took away my MS8, I'd regroup with a MiniDSP solution I think. 

 
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