OEM Stereo Upgrade: JL Audio or Alpine

[SRT82ECOBOOST]

So I am going to try and schedule my install later this week for the following:
-(2) Trunk Mounted amplifiers
      -(1) Amp for the front soundstage
      -(1) Amp for future subwoofer
-(1) 5 1/4" component set for the front doors and A-pillars
How many hours should I expect an installer to take to get this installed(system is currently stock Sony)?

 

[Lanson]

I really like the idea of the side box as well. I just do not have the time or expertise to pull of something like that. Lanson, it is too bad we could not get a Taurus in your hands and have you model a side enclosure to sell to the masses.

All I really need are precise measurements and pics to fully understand the space.  Best way I know how to do it is to use large art paper, create a grid across the paper almost like graph paper, and then insert that paper in the trunk.  From a known square point, then the grid is cut to match the trunk's shape, bit by bit, line by line.  Once done, you effectively have your template.  From there, I can then build a shape in 3D modeling (or just on paper, no problem), and figure out how many cuts it takes to get there.  From that, we can either just have a plan that could be used, or I could build and send boxes that work.  Boxes like this, with templates and proper plans, take NO time to make, BTW.  An air nailer, good wood glue, and 3/4" MDF (or Baltic Birch, a lighter and stronger material), and we're cooking. 

Compared with making one out of fiberglass, making an odd-shaped wood box like I've shown here is CAKE.  Doesn't quite use the space as well as a fiberglass box, but at least 1/2 the price, 1/4 the time, and it is much more consistent to make. 

I'm down to help, I've got a successful history of helping build boxes for others.  A plan though could help the woodworkers on this forum make their own, or those workers (like I can do) can make them for those that want it.

Lots of options, I'm sure we can find one that works.

 

[SRT82ECOBOOST]

I really like the idea of the side box as well. I just do not have the time or expertise to pull of something like that. Lanson, it is too bad we could not get a Taurus in your hands and have you model a side enclosure to sell to the masses.

All I really need are precise measurements and pics to fully understand the space.  Best way I know how to do it is to use large art paper, create a grid across the paper almost like graph paper, and then insert that paper in the trunk.  From a known square point, then the grid is cut to match the trunk's shape, bit by bit, line by line.  Once done, you effectively have your template.  From there, I can then build a shape in 3D modeling (or just on paper, no problem), and figure out how many cuts it takes to get there.  From that, we can either just have a plan that could be used, or I could build and send boxes that work.  Boxes like this, with templates and proper plans, take NO time to make, BTW.  An air nailer, good wood glue, and 3/4" MDF (or Baltic Birch, a lighter and stronger material), and we're cooking. 

Compared with making one out of fiberglass, making an odd-shaped wood box like I've shown here is CAKE.  Doesn't quite use the space as well as a fiberglass box, but at least 1/2 the price, 1/4 the time, and it is much more consistent to make. 

I'm down to help, I've got a successful history of helping build boxes for others.  A plan though could help the woodworkers on this forum make their own, or those workers (like I can do) can make them for those that want it.

Lots of options, I'm sure we can find one that works.

Or I/we could pay for you to rent a 2013 Taurus for half a day to get precise measurements.

 

[Lanson]

I really like the idea of the side box as well. I just do not have the time or expertise to pull of something like that. Lanson, it is too bad we could not get a Taurus in your hands and have you model a side enclosure to sell to the masses.

All I really need are precise measurements and pics to fully understand the space.  Best way I know how to do it is to use large art paper, create a grid across the paper almost like graph paper, and then insert that paper in the trunk.  From a known square point, then the grid is cut to match the trunk's shape, bit by bit, line by line.  Once done, you effectively have your template.  From there, I can then build a shape in 3D modeling (or just on paper, no problem), and figure out how many cuts it takes to get there.  From that, we can either just have a plan that could be used, or I could build and send boxes that work.  Boxes like this, with templates and proper plans, take NO time to make, BTW.  An air nailer, good wood glue, and 3/4" MDF (or Baltic Birch, a lighter and stronger material), and we're cooking. 

Compared with making one out of fiberglass, making an odd-shaped wood box like I've shown here is CAKE.  Doesn't quite use the space as well as a fiberglass box, but at least 1/2 the price, 1/4 the time, and it is much more consistent to make. 

I'm down to help, I've got a successful history of helping build boxes for others.  A plan though could help the woodworkers on this forum make their own, or those workers (like I can do) can make them for those that want it.

Lots of options, I'm sure we can find one that works.

Or I/we could pay for you to rent a 2013 Taurus for half a day to get precise measurements.

LOL I like your style.

Let me put it this way, if someone in Vegas has a Taurus, let me hear from them and I'll do what I can to help. 

 

[BiGMaC]

Hope you mean that offer.... I'll be over from AZ sometime after New Years....  :icon_mrgreen: Loved what I saw.  :thumb:

 

[Lanson]

Hope you mean that offer.... I'll be over from AZ sometime after New Years....  :icon_mrgreen: Loved what I saw.  :thumb:

Yeah, definitely meant it.  I've been looking at this trunk carefully, and I think the sides are an ultimately great place to install gear in this trunk.  Easy, great shapes, good space, and it should be nice and stock-like after I'm done.  It is the first time I've built boxes and shipped them out to people, I know how to get that done right.

I see three design possibilities right off the top of my head:

One, is a simple enclosure and amp rack on just one side, for moderate basic systems and modest but deep bass response.  A very potent 10, 12, or maybe if I'm lucky, a 15 that needs very little space to work properly.

Two, is a set of enclosures.  One side with a single large sub or a pair of smaller ones, and the other side an appropriate amp rack. 

Three, is a set of enclosures with subs on each side, and amp racks on each side.  This would be the most work, but could also be the coolest looking setup.  It would be the most work because the left and right sub enclosures would need to be almost exactly the same volume inside, despite being different shapes.  But, I know I can do it.


BTW when I say amp rack, I mean processor, amps, distribution equipment, etc.  Anything basically.


I especially like how the trunk has that lip at the bottom and how I could use a simple wood form to make an almost seamless beauty board off that lip. 

Something like this, just a rough quick thing

 

[SHOdded]

Taking a moment to appreciate Lanson being active on this forum, and so enthusiastic to boot!  No wonder 4DR Mike recommends him so highly :thumb:

 

[DJE624]

You said it Shodded!  I don't even use my radio but I appreciate Lanson's talent!

 

[BiGMaC]

Hope you mean that offer.... I'll be over from AZ sometime after New Years....  :icon_mrgreen: Loved what I saw.  :thumb:

Yeah, definitely meant it.  I've been looking at this trunk carefully, and I think the sides are an ultimately great place to install gear in this trunk.  Easy, great shapes, good space, and it should be nice and stock-like after I'm done.  It is the first time I've built boxes and shipped them out to people, I know how to get that done right.

I see three design possibilities right off the top of my head:

One, is a simple enclosure and amp rack on just one side, for moderate basic systems and modest but deep bass response.  A very potent 10, 12, or maybe if I'm lucky, a 15 that needs very little space to work properly.

Two, is a set of enclosures.  One side with a single large sub or a pair of smaller ones, and the other side an appropriate amp rack. 

Three, is a set of enclosures with subs on each side, and amp racks on each side.  This would be the most work, but could also be the coolest looking setup.  It would be the most work because the left and right sub enclosures would need to be almost exactly the same volume inside, despite being different shapes.  But, I know I can do it.


BTW when I say amp rack, I mean processor, amps, distribution equipment, etc.  Anything basically.


I especially like how the trunk has that lip at the bottom and how I could use a simple wood form to make an almost seamless beauty board off that lip. 

Something like this, just a rough quick thing

So if I get the equipment to you.. or at lest it's dimensions. weight, and the speaker's space/porting requirements how long do you think the install would take if I drove to Vegas for that. I really only want the real sub... hitting with authority passed at 50-60Hz. Can the line input from the existing subs be used with final tuning on the amp? (I grew up with the old OZ Audio Superman sub DVC... linear to 5Hz and electrical excursion of and 2.7 inches for the 12 in.. x3 in my pickup, LOL)  ...

I'd consider updating the door speakers (mids/midbass) or others but the tweets are pretty good.  I miss the old 2" Aura sink tweets.

 

[Fast SHO]

I respectfully disagree on running rear fill.  I've had an upgraded stereo in every car I've owned.  In each one I've only run a set of front components and a sub.  Each time passenger's have not been able to tell that I was only running speakers up front.  Two cars ago I had rear fill.  Was running BA Pro60's in the front and polyglass coax for the rear fill.  I couldn't even tell I had the rear fill, mostly because in any proper setup the front is supposed to slightly over power the rear.

At the end of the day the rear fill was a waste of $$.

But that is just me and my listening preferences.

 

[Lanson]

I respectfully disagree on running rear fill.  I've had an upgraded stereo in every car I've owned.  In each one I've only run a set of front components and a sub.  Each time passenger's have not been able to tell that I was only running speakers up front.  Two cars ago I had rear fill.  Was running BA Pro60's in the front and polyglass coax for the rear fill.  I couldn't even tell I had the rear fill, mostly because in any proper setup the front is supposed to slightly over power the rear.

At the end of the day the rear fill was a waste of $$.

But that is just me and my listening preferences.

re: rear fill, without processing, I feel you're correct.  And it makes sense, because they are just playing the same thing the front speakers are, yet there is no time alignment so all it does is smear the image.


With processing, those rear speakers (and center too) are there to complete the image.  Proper time alignment and proper algorithms used to make the rear speakers play only things that are out of phase with the original signal (example, the reverb from the back wall of a venue back to the microphone up on stage), then it works much differently.

You can do this without processing, but major effort must be put into building an optimal front stage.  Example, Earl Zausmer's BMW. 

That man installed B&W Nautilus speakers in his car!  15" drivers in the footwells.  This system is done up with Milbert tube amps, and numerous other tricks.  BUT, I must point out that even Earl's 5 year winning streak car had DSP.  Almost all upper echelon sound quality competition winners have it.  You have to, in a car.  For the reasons I mentioned previously.

You can learn more about Earl here http://www.milbert.com/autos/earl


Now then if you keep the stock speakers in the stock locations, these advantages of plopping 20k+ speakers in pods on your dash and in your footwell disappear.  And that is why multichannel DSP such as Logic7 is important.  It can acoustically match the image to some degree of a car like Earl's without moving the speakers to locations other than stock, all through processing an algorithm and adjusting for distance via time delay. 



Anyway, yes, it is all owner preference but I always urge people to try it with, because as a former 2ch guy myself I've improved upon what I thought was the best I could get (short of doing something like what Earl did to his BMW.)

 

[Lanson]

[quote author=BiGMaC]

So if I get the equipment to you.. or at lest it's dimensions. weight, and the speaker's space/porting requirements how long do you think the install would take if I drove to Vegas for that. I really only want the real sub... hitting with authority passed at 50-60Hz. Can the line input from the existing subs be used with final tuning on the amp? (I grew up with the old OZ Audio Superman sub DVC... linear to 5Hz and electrical excursion of and 2.7 inches for the 12 in.. x3 in my pickup, LOL)  ...

I'd consider updating the door speakers (mids/midbass) or others but the tweets are pretty good.  I miss the old 2" Aura sink tweets.
[/quote]

I'd highly reconsider the cross point mentioned, but I understand the goal.  My best advice to the best sounding subs I've ever used or heard,  I would advise looking around for the lowest inductance drivers you can find within reason.

, and yes regarding actual install, I'm not in a position to spend more than weekends at a time so I'm not going to be able to devote myself to it.  When I build my systems, it is either weekends at a time, OR on stay-cation.  But I can build enclosures and ship them out, OR I could have the car for a weekend and get a lot of it done, and then work on the non space-critical things while the car is not with me, and then either ship it or have you come back. 

While pondering, take a peek at this
http://creativesound.ca/pdf/SDX12.pdf
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX12%20Single

Something like that ought to get down with authority.  I do fear that no stage up front could match it, so now we'd be just showing off with extra bass the front can't hang with.  BUT, oh well.

 

[Fast SHO]

I do have a question.  Is the JL HD 900/5 worth the cost difference over the Alpine PDX-V9?

 

[SHODYOU]

JBL GTO-5ez

http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/products/GTO-5EZ/GTO-5EZ_JBL_US?skuId=GTO-5EZ_JBL_US&searchMode=

75x4 is plenty for highs/mids and the GTO-ez amps are really nice, I own the 504 and 751. I would own that 5ez but I wanted more than 500watts to the low end.
Setup cd with test tones for gain setting, and they need no remote wire, makes them easy to setup on a factory hu. They turn on as soon as they see a signal through the rca's.

I've never been a JL fan, imho you pay more for the same tech.

 

[BiGMaC]

JBL GTO-5ez

http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/products/GTO-5EZ/GTO-5EZ_JBL_US?skuId=GTO-5EZ_JBL_US&searchMode=


75x4 is plenty for highs/mids and the GTO-ez amps are really nice, I own the 504 and 751. I would own that 5ez but I wanted more than 500watts to the low end.
Setup cd with test tones for gain setting, and they need no remote wire, makes them easy to setup on a factory hu. They turn on as soon as they see a signal through the rca's.

I've never been a JL fan, imho you pay more for the same tech.

I've never been a JL fan either, but this looks like it would suit my purpose really well.

 

[Fast SHO]

Going to buy a 12w6v3 and Jl JX1000/1 from my brother for $350.  Great deal IMO, so all I need now is a 2 channel amp.

Any suggestion for a 2 or 4 channel?  I was thinking the XR400-4 bridged.

 

[Kolk1]

Couple of the boxes you posted, are basically what ive considered building for my taurus.

I havent built a beauty plate for mine, because I use the pass through all the time. So I havent felt its worth it, unless I only do a 3/4 wall.

 

[dalum]

You can do this without processing, but major effort must be put into building an optimal front stage.  Example, Earl Zausmer's BMW. 

That man installed B&W Nautilus speakers in his car!  15" drivers in the footwells.  This system is done up with Milbert tube amps, and numerous other tricks.  BUT, I must point out that even Earl's 5 year winning streak car had DSP.  Almost all upper echelon sound quality competition winners have it.  You have to, in a car.  For the reasons I mentioned previously.

You can learn more about Earl here http://www.milbert.com/autos/earl

OMG I haven't seen this car in so many years!  I feel sooooo old now

 

[Dxlnt1]

Anyone have any reviews of the Scosche system?
http://www.scosche.com/2010-up-ford-taurus-double-din-and-din-with-pocket-installation-kit

Now a whole slew of head units open up. And since I don't have navigation, I will now within head unit. And, all climate controls become touch screen operated. And roughly $200 on eBay.

My installer and I discussed options. Haven't decided on all the components yet as I'm deciding how much I want to spend to make it right. But the sub, he will build me a fiberglass box for 12" sub to fit in right corner of trunk. The example pic is in my maxima he did. Will be shallow design. I will maintain full use of whole trunk. I don't like add ons that look like add ons. If I were going to use one of the boxes in the space behind back seat, I would use down firing subs. Especially if the area would not be encapsulated from rest of trunk.

 

[BiGMaC]

I don't have any reviews. but the center stack option you list looks great and allows increased functionality beyond upgraded sound.  :thumb:

I will say that I prefer subs that are in a ported enclosure, no bandpass, just designed to optimize the speaker and a little fiberfill to control resonation. The SHO trunk should have plenty of room for 2-4 ft3 and still have plenty of trunk space.