PAO Based Synthetic Motor Oil Options

S

sholxgt

New member
Thought I would start this thread to try to gain some knowledge of which oils are truly synthetic.  As in they start life with a synthetic base stock.  This is not my area of expertise, so I'm interested to see what the community comes up with.

To the best of my knowledge, the following are PAO based synthetics:
Amsoil Signature
Red Line
Driven Racing

Anyone know if Motorcraft Full Synthetic is a PAO based oil?
From the Motorcraft Site:
● Manufactured with high-viscosity index, premium-
          quality, synthetic base oils that provide good
          high-temperature and low-temperature
          performance
So, it might be an option.  I've been running it only because I have free oil changes at the dealer.  LOL

I will add to this list as people post additions.  Will also delete any of the above if I am incorrect.  Let's see what we can come up with.

Edited to add Driven Racing motor oil AND remove Royal Purple
 
AnotherGreenFusion said:
What do you look for to determine if an oil is PAO based?


Are all AMSOil/Redline/Royal Purple grades PAO?
Click to expand...

Amsoil OE = good
Amsoil XL = better
Amsoil SS(signature series) = best
 
Higher viscosity and shear viscosity are better correct?


I am trying to understand the difference between the Euro Spec AmsOil and Signature. As far as I can tel the Euro Spec has better viscosity but a lower TBN. Most of the other specs are near identical for the weight.
 
I believe I had seen it plainly stated on Amsoil's website that Signature was a true Group IV oil.  You can try comparing the MSDS for the oils of interest to see what the base is.

Comparing specs isn't the whole story.  A lot of oils come to the specs via their additive packages.  The quality of the additive package determines how long the oil is useful in operation, especially for Group III or less oils.

Take the following with a grain (or several grains) of salt:
http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=1378
 
Always get the best information outside of the US.  In Europe, it is not legal to call what Castrol and Mobil sell here synthetic.  Castrol Edge and Mobil 1 in Europe are still derived from Group IV and V base stocks by law.  From what I understand, when you buy the VW and BMW specific Mobil 1, even in the US, you are getting a true synthetic.  Those manufactures specs require true synthetic oil.

This has to be taken with a grain of salt since it's on a competitor's Site, but I think this does a good job of telling the story of how we are all being duped by these fake synthetics...

http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm

 
AJP turbo said:
AnotherGreenFusion said:
What do you look for to determine if an oil is PAO based?


Are all AMSOil/Redline/Royal Purple grades PAO?
Click to expand...

Amsoil OE = good - Group III base stock, not synthetic by definition outside of the US
Amsoil XL = better - Group III base stock, but with better additive package
Amsoil SS(signature series) = best - True synthetic
Click to expand...

I agree with what you have above and added to it based on my research.  More than willing to amend if proven wrong.
 
This all makes my head hurt!


I have some testing coming back on the AMSOil Euro Spec and will run through what I have left in my engine. After that maybe I will try BND's stuff. Or I might switch to signature though I am not sure how much of a difference there is in reality between the EuroSpec and Signature as I would assume both are PAO.


Through some of the links posted it sounds like Penzoil synth might be just fine?
 
AnotherGreenFusion said:
This all makes my head hurt!


I have some testing coming back on the AMSOil Euro Spec and will run through what I have left in my engine. After that maybe I will try BND's stuff. Or I might switch to signature though I am not sure how much of a difference there is in reality between the EuroSpec and Signature as I would assume both are PAO.


Through some of the links posted it sounds like Penzoil synth might be just fine?
Click to expand...
Pennzoil ultra platinum seems to be a great choice IMO.  Z  http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-ultra-platinum/_jcr_content/productDetails.stream/1460058460926/206444cb877e3961f436c35ca2fb4560ebc862ecd9e5be9cb14fa15e88aa7517/Pennzoil-Ultra-Platinum-5W-30.pdf          https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-550038320-Ultra-Platinum-Synthetic/dp/B0123EL4G4/ref=pd_cart_bxgy_1_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8094H9G6EEQSKQ8KC7XN
 
I found an oil analysis and comparisons between Mobil 1 [not]EP and Pennzoil Platinum [not] ultra,very interesting....a must on my list.  Z   
zkL7B1Uh.png
 
Be careful which Pennzoil product you are using, Pennzoil Ultra is NOT the same as Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Pennzoil Platinum Plus.  Pennzoil Ultra was a higher quality product, not really available in the open market anymore.  I found a listing or two for $55 a 6pk but not sure if there is actual stock to back it up.  If you can find true  Pennzoil ULTRA, buy it and use it, if you dont want to go the Amsoil Signature route.
 
SHOdded said:
Be careful which Pennzoil product you are using, Pennzoil Ultra is NOT the same as Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Pennzoil Platinum Plus.  Pennzoil Ultra was a higher quality product, not really available in the open market anymore.  I found a listing or two for $55 a 6pk but not sure if there is actual stock to back it up.  If you can find true  Pennzoil ULTRA, buy it and use it, if you dont want to go the Amsoil Signature route.
Click to expand...
True indeed.  Z 
SkPcsFMh.png
 
The price difference on Penzoil ultra platinum is so huge compared to amsoil signature or euro spec. I want to change with increased intervals at least during the season since I track the car at least once a month. If this is really a good replacement for AMSOil then I am all about it. I am only running AMSOil now because it was what I ran in my Monte's and GPs.
 
PUP is not the same as Pennzoil Ultra, just to be clear.  BUT again, the key is OCI.  Don't expect it to run to the same intervals as Amsoil Signature, that is the most important note.  At least Amsoil specifies intervals for both normal & severe duty!  So if we take the stated OCI for any other oil cut it to 40% for severe duty, that might be a good yardstick as well.  I only suggest that because Blackstone data is so hard to come by.

If you are going to track the car regulary, your OCI should be on a severe duty interval at the very least.  And, yes, there are some owners who will change the oil and trans fluid after every track day, and the results speak for themselves.
 
At the price difference of that version plus its rarity AMSOil still wins out. Then the question comes is it better to go with AMSOil euro spec with the lower TBN and better high temp shear or AMSOIl signature with much better TBN but slightly lower high temp shear. Almost everything else about the two are identical. 


Who else is doing full PAO? I went to synth years ago for the same reasons stated in many of the links here, consistency of results and quality.
 
I will have to take a look, as I have never seen the AMSOIL ES before.  BUT if the shear numbers are only slightly different, and the AMSOIL Sig has much better TBN, I would go with the SIG.  Honestly, both TBN and TAN should be measured for any oil analysis.  But for now TBN is a decent yardstick.
 
AnotherGreenFusion said:
AMSOil ES


AMSOil Signature
Click to expand...
I dont think its compatible though. Amsoil ES Specs.  5W-30 (AEL): API SN; SM…; ACEA C3; BMW LL-04; Mercedes
Benz 229.51; Volkswagen 504.00, 507.00; Porsche C30; GM
dexos 2™; Chrysler MS-11106  Amsoil Signature series specs.  5W-30 (ASL): API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; Honda HTO-06; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; Chrysler MS-6395; GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M) Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications.  BTW IMO there is two much Zinc on the ES .Z
 
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