PAO Based Synthetic Motor Oil Options

Excellent, thank you!

Also, thanks for putting up with my ignorant questions. I used to run HDD in my old cars but that was clearly insufficient for these engines, I went eurospec mainly because in some of my reading it was preferred for DI setups. I will give signature a try in the next oil change, it is a bit cheaper anyway.
 
Here's an article on High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity from Driven Racing Oil (more popularly seen as Joe Gibbs Racing Oil):
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/latest-tech-bulletins/hths-tech-bulletin-september-2012/

ASTM D5481 - 13
Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D5481.htm
Significance and Use

5.1 Viscosity is an important property of fluid lubricants. The viscosity of all fluids varies with temperature. Many common petroleum lubricants are non-Newtonian: their viscosity also varies with shear rate. The usefulness of the viscosity of lubricants is greatest when the viscosity is measured at or near the conditions of shear rate and temperature that the lubricants will experience in service.

5.2 The conditions of shear rate and temperature of this test method are thought to be representative of those in the bearing of automotive engines in severe service.

5.3 Many equipment manufacturers and lubricant specifications require a minimum high-temperature high-shear viscosity at 150 °C and 106 s−1. The shear rate in capillary viscometers varies across the radius of the capillary. The apparent shear rate at the wall for this test method is increased to compensate for the variable shear rate.3

5.4 This test was evaluated in an ASTM cooperative program.6
1. Scope

1.1 This test method covers the laboratory determination of high-temperature high-shear (HTHS) viscosity of engine oils at a temperature of 150 °C using a multicell capillary viscometer containing pressure, temperature, and timing instrumentation. The shear rate for this test method corresponds to an apparent shear rate at the wall of 1.4 million reciprocal seconds (1.4 × 10 6 s−1).3 This shear rate has been found to decrease the discrepancy between this test method and other high-temperature high-shear test methods3 (Test Methods D4683 and D4741) used for engine oil specifications. Viscosities are determined directly from calibrations that have been established with Newtonian oils with nominal viscosities from 1.4 mPa·s to 5.0 mPa·s at 150 °C. The precision has only been determined for the viscosity range 1.45 mPa·s and 5.05 mPa·s at 150 °C for the materials listed in the precision section.

1.2 The values stated in SI units are to be regarded as standard. No other units of measurement are included in this standard.

1.2.1 The centiPoise (cP) is a non-SI metric unit of viscosity that is numerically equal to the milliPascal-second (mPa·s).

1.2.2 Pounds per square inch (psi) is a non-SI unit of pressure that is approximately equal to 6.895 kPa. These units are provided for information only in 6.1.1, 7.3, 9.1.2.1, and the tables.

1.3 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.


AMSOIL may be using a mix of Group IV & V oils in its' signature line formulation (both true synthetics), or so an article implied.
 
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Mixture of Polyalphaolefins (ed:  PAOs) and additives.

Pennzoil Platinum SAE 5W-20 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon, polyalphaolefins (ed:  Group III & IV most likely) and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains <3% (w/w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
 
Thanks SHOdded!

This one looks promising as a potential good choice...
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/ls30-synthetic-5w-149html/

It's designed for GM's LS series engines, but looks to meet the right criteria for us as well.  I have added Driven Racing as a true PAO option in the first post based on their data sheets.  I don't think I should add Pennzoil Ultra as it seems to be going away?

It also looks like Royal Purple needs to come off of the list.  It appears they have also dumbed down their recipe to now include petroleum base stock...
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/assets/sds/ROYAL%20PURPLE%20MOTOR%20OIL%205W30_MO5W30GF5_SN_US%20GHS_ENG.pdf
 
I would always advise talking to them first to see if their products suit your needs.  They say "Racing Oils" in their name, so you should be clear in your mind for your application what to expect for performance, OCI, etc.

I know some of our fastest SHOs are running Royal Purple oil, not sure whether it's the regular or the HPS version, as an FYI.  The MSDS says
"Base Oil (synthetic) — Synthetic additives with iso-paraffinic diluents."

http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/chem-english/brands/hydrocarbon-oxygenated-fluids-products-isopar.aspx?ln=productsservices
Isopar™ isoparaffinic fluids

Isopar fluids are high-purity synthetic isoparaffins with consistent and uniform quality, thanks to selected feedstocks and controlled manufacturing processes. They are produced at world-class plants, delivering one of the narrowest boiling ranges for hydrocarbon fluids.

The purity of Isopar fluids grades, combined with an array of technical attributes, offers end-use benefits for both industrial processes and consumer applications.

Attributes and benefits 
•Essentially odorless, improving comfort for both workers and end users
•Narrow boiling ranges for optimal combination of flash point and drying time
•Extremely low aromatic content to minimize risks from exposure
•Compatible with most packaging materials
•High chemical stability for good end-product shelf life
•Low freeze point
•Low electrical conductivity
•Low surface tension for superior wetting and surface spreading
 
IMO would focus on the lowest NOACK Number on all the above mentioned oil's best for GTDI engines/applications because it will reduce oil consumption and help keep the PCV system and intake valves clean.....Another factor to consider when choosing motor oil is how it may contribute to intake valve deposits. This has become a major issue on many late model Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines and Oil drawn into the intake manifold through the PCV system combined with any oil that gets past the valve guides can oxidize and form deposits on the valves. Over time, this can interfere with airflow and cause performance problems and even misfires,just a couple of specifications you might want to consider before determining the right oil that fits your driving needs/habits.  Z
 
The Driven Racing oil listed above is oil for street use.  I agree about the need to find the correct type of oil.  For most of us, that means an API oil.  I believe that LS30 is an API oil, but it would be worth a call to make sure.

The Royal Purple data sheet I see has Petroleum listed as it's first ingredient.  Even for the HPS...
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/assets/sds/HPS%20MOTOR%20OIL%205W30_HPS_MO5W30HPSAC_US%20GHS_ENG.pdf

Just spoke with a friend of mine that runs Royal Purple in his Lightning.  He is positive that Royal Purple used to be strictly PAO based.

For me a lot of this comes down to cost.  I don't want to pay $8, 9, 10/quart for something that couldn't even be called synthetic in the rest of the world.  Now, if the price is right.  Fine. 


 
Staying competitive is tough.  Probably why Amsoil has 3 lines/grades of motor oil.  Royal Purple's best tech is Synerlec at the moment.
 
Because of store availability, I'm leaning toward Red Line.

How do these specs compare to others?  How about the NOACK number?

ACEA Service Class A3 B3/B4
API Service Class SN/SM/SL/CF
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 11.9
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 71
Viscosity Index 166
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C 60@-30
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 6
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 3.7

I find this all interesting.  Thanks for the discussion all!
 
Amsoil preferred membership is 20 bucks a year and then you get amsoil for 25% off retail....which puts signature series about 9 bucks a qt and delivered to your door in 3 days

And f you run the recommended change interval its not really anymore expensive than other brands
 
AJP turbo said:
Amsoil preferred membership is 20 bucks a year and then you get amsoil for 25% off retail....which puts signature series about 9 bucks a qt and delivered to your door in 3 days

And f you run the recommended change interval its not really anymore expensive than other brands

Very good points!  From what I see, I would not pay the money for their non-Signature products, but the Signature series is an excellent option.

I run their fluid in the transmission in our Fit and could use some of their other products.  What does it usually take to get free shipping?  When I built an order, the shipping costs became a factor as they weren't cheap.
 
sholxgt said:
Very good points!  From what I see, I would not pay the money for their non-Signature products, but the Signature series is an excellent option.

I run their fluid in the transmission in our Fit and could use some of their other products.  What does it usually take to get free shipping?  When I built an order, the shipping costs became a factor as they weren't cheap.


Not sure you can get around the shipping costs, been a member for years and have always had to pay shipping even when buying multiple cases. Figure about $1-1.30 for shipping per quart.
 
Once you become a member, just wait for the specials to roll around.  Sometimes a $ amt, sometimes free shipping.

Redline specs look good, cant speak as to effectiveness tho (haven't looked for data).  Certainly worth a shot.
 
I have honestly have tried all the above mentioned oils and it seems Amsoil to be on top of the food chain if your willing to pay the extra shipping costs and any applicable tax fees compounded by an annual 20.00 membership fee IDK considering Redline and Pennzoil oils are much cheaper especially Pennzoil which does have lower NOACK Volatility than Amsoil and based from this site its a very close match up between the three groups IMO...your car your choice your $$ and all 3 are certainly TOP quality oils.  Z  http://www.bestsynthetic.com/best-synthetic-motor-oil.shtml    BTW How much of the Amsoil are you going to consume within a one year subscription. Z
 
Too bad that the good Pennzoil is no longer available.  It doesn't seem to me that their current offerings are in the same league as Amsoil or Redline.

As SHOdded pointed out, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is not up to the standards of what they used to provide with their Ultra.  It's sad how many suppliers are downgrading their offerings at the same time cars are needing better oils.  I went from Castrol Titanium to Pennzoil Ultra in our Fit when the base stock of Castrol changed.  My goal is to find the best oil for the money, but that's changing darn near every oil change these days.

Anyone find NOACK on Pennzoil Ultra Platinum?  They don't seem to list it anymore which is a red flag for me.
 
sholxgt said:
Too bad that the good Pennzoil is no longer available.  It doesn't seem to me that their current offerings are in the same league as Amsoil or Redline.

As SHOdded pointed out, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is not up to the standards of what they used to provide with their Ultra.  It's sad how many suppliers are downgrading their offerings at the same time cars are needing better oils.  I went from Castrol Titanium to Pennzoil Ultra in our Fit when the base stock of Castrol changed.  My goal is to find the best oil for the money, but that's changing darn near every oil change these days.

Anyone find NOACK on Pennzoil Ultra Platinum?  They don't seem to list it anymore which is a red flag for me.
PDF for pup is in post 16. Noack is 11.5


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
ZSHO said:
BTW How much of the Amsoil are you going to consume within a one year subscription[/u]. Z

Probably only 1 oil change so if that's the case than you are right Z, maybe not worth the investment.....But I drink and bathe in that **** lol

I use the trans fluid, gear oil for the RDU, PTU and I run the signature series oil in my wife's car which is direct injected turbo engine 10k between oil changes and all the fluids in here car are amsoil as well....I put signature series in my lawnmower and weed wacker and snow blower!
 
AJP turbo said:
ZSHO said:
BTW How much of the Amsoil are you going to consume within a one year subscription. Z

Probably only 1 oil change so if that's the case than you are right Z, maybe not worth the investment.....But I drink and bathe in that **** lol

I use the trans fluid, gear oil for the RDU, PTU and I run the signature series oil in my wife's car which is direct injected turbo engine 10k between oil changes and all the fluids in here car are amsoil as well....I put signature series in my lawnmower and weed wacker and snow blower!


Never thought about using it for the 2-strokes but I do use it everywhere. How does it do in the smaller engines?


Note you can get a 5 year subscription for $75. If you are buying into it for an extended period this can be the way to go.


I am happy to order for anyone at my cost, its takes just a moment to fill in the web form and take a paypal payment. The whole thing is setup to be Amway for men but nothing says you have to charge any markup if you dont want to.


Shoot me a PM if anyone wants some AMSOil and wants to save the subscription fee just to try it out. It's the least I can do for all the great info here.
 
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