PCM tune tables - different between '14 & '15?

M

metroplex

New member
I know this is an old thread, but it came up during my research on what exactly comes on the Performance Package.

The PTU cooler came up and bpd1151 pointed out that it is integrated on the PTU and not easily retrofitted. So I looked up the PTU part numbers on Tascar Ford, and there are basically 2 PTUs for 2013-up SHOs:
AT4Z-7251-E (to 7/16/13)
DG1Z-7251-D (from 7/16/13)

Doing a Google search for those part numbers, I found a Russian website with 3 pictures of the DG1Z-7251-D PTU:
https://www.avito.ru/moskva/zapchasti_i_aksessuary/dg1z7251d_korobka_razdatochnaya_eksplorer_709931422

If you look closely, you can see the cooler sticking out. I had to make sure by checking this photo to see where the cooler was located.

W.jpg


I'm recovering from surgery, otherwise I would have crawled around my car to see if it came with one. I checked today for the trans cooler and engine oil cooler (easy enough to do from the outside) and it didn't come with them. I had to check, because you never know if Ford started slapping these on all the later cars. They did it with the aux trans coolers on the Crown Vics after 1998 or so.

Some background info:
I factory ordered my 2014 SHO with only Navigation and not the Perf Package because it was a lease, and I was picking it up early January in Michigan where the summer racing tires would be useless. The day the car arrived, there was about 6" of ice and snow on the roads. My lease is coming up in less than a year and I'm trying to figure out what to do. I also found out that while HPTuners does support the SHO for tuning, the pre-15 Fords with the Tri-Core 1797 processors have a lot of the tables missing (shift maps for the drive modes and throttle settings for the drive modes), so everything is pointing against me buying out the 2014. There's no word on a 2017 SHO, but I saw an article where Ford was thinking of producing an updated SHO, but the fact remains Ford has been tight lipped on the 2017 and future Taurus for the US for the last 2 Detroit Auto Shows - but has been providing bits and pieces on every other 2017 model.
 
The people that I have worked with seem to lump the 10-12 ECU's and the 13+ ECU's into 2 categories...I can only see my strategy with the license I have...There were some things missing until recently...Pretty much weekly SCT adds new things to the tune....But they aren't really adding but rather just exposing things that are already there.

I don't know about HPT but I haven't found anything that I desperately need that doesn't exist with SCT's package

I don't believe you would have any limitations by having a 14' or 15' SHO....

Whether or not some of you choose to believe it, the reason I'm a datalog whore is because I like to try and inform people a little about the things that may be going on because of what I see in the log and because of what I see in the tunes.....And because I like to see how they compare with mine because I like to think that I have a kickass tune. But not because it helps me crack any codes...And if you asked me I'd say I have one of the better tunes out there.

It also sounds like Metro is saying that all the 13's after a certain date have the cooler and I don't think that's true.
 
FoMoCoSHO said:
@Metroplex...

Are you saying the 2015's have a different PCM?
Click to expand...

The EcoBoost TC1797s for 2015-up have numerous extra tables that aren't found in pre-15 PCMs. I need access to someone's 15 SHO to download their tune and see if the tables are there. I suspect this is the case but still waiting to confirm. I do know the 2014 Mustang and F150 PCMs lack those tables found in the 2015 models, but their excuse could be the new platforms. It is a big enough deal for me to not even consider buying out my 2014 along withe the lack of the perf pkg.

The missing tables are for the electronic throttle settings in Drive and Sport modes. Notice how the throttle responds better in sport mode? There's an entire table for that. Basically the actual throttle opens more than what you are commanding up to a certain point. It'd be nice to have that in regular drive all the time. In my 2014 all I see are the basic settings found on 2005 to 2014 Fords, nothing pertaining to the Sport mode which I know has different throttle and shift mapping. I think there were other tables as well. I can't speak for SCT regarding the SHO but I know they lock out the throttle settings unless you are certified to tune the throttle. Luckily HPT allows access, I'm even able to see what a canned tune did on my Mustang for its electronic throttle which was tuned with SCT. The SCT Advantage software also runs like molasses compared to HPT (which flies even on an old Atom netbook)

As for the PTU, the Ford catalog made no distinction for the PTU with respect to SHO, PI, or PP. It just showed 2 dates. I'll try to see if I can spot the PTU from above because I can't really crawl under the car while recovering. But since this is an older thread, someone might have checked a 2014-up non-PP already? From a business perspective it'd make sense to use one PTU and set of hoses for such a limited production vehicle.
 
The cooled PTU is also used in the 13-up Police Interceptors (Taurus and Explorer), so the actual numbers in use should be significant enough to justify 2 different units, but IDK.
 
Metro I can try to help you but you think you have it all figured out so I'm not sure if there is a point but....

1. There are no locked out throttle tables in SCT. You simply need to ask them for "calibrator level access". No certification required. Ask me how I know.

You paid for a tuning package which cost 500-700 last I checked but now you have me curious. Buy an SCT device and the pro racer software package is only 350. So you are around 700.

You can have the same throttle sensitivity and power levels and shift schedule between drive and sport mode...It's not a problem as long as your tuner is competent. Ask me how I know

It won't be long until HPT will have a lock feature for their tunes...The dealers will want it...HPT is relatively new so consider them a work in progress....The people that tune for a living will need the protection of locked tunes

The strategies between ECO stangs and F150's and fusion's are all different, sometimes when it's even the same car in the same year....How do you know the tables are different when you said you haven't even seen a 15 SHO?

And it wouldn't surprise me if the PTU's are the same just the PP's have the bladder for cooling on the side of the unit
 
I wouldn't compare 14' stangs that never came with ecoboost to any 15' model...Of course they will be different...Different controllers....Even the fusions and SHO's that are both ecoboosts have different controllers....The boost is controlled differently in Focus' , fusion's ,SHO's.
 
As I was reading over your post again I realized you contention is that you may have more functionality and control due to the 15' SHO having more exposed tables.....You actually have it backwards.....It takes time for the software companies to expose the tables..Often a more complete tune can be had on the older platforms as the  learning curve has already taken place.


Eventually the 15' may have more tables but that would be down the road once they get exposed and that all on the assumption that the 15' ECU is different than the 14' SHO ECU which I'm pretty sure would be a bad assupmtion
 
Metro, I just realized you are the one that messaged me on the SCT forum. I sent you that text file via email. Sorry it took so long.

Honestly, I told you before but you won't listen...That SCT value file for the performance tune is garbage...Those changes are not the way to do it but you seem to want to assume that since then are from SCT they are a good starting point....I can tell you that the person at SCT that came up with those values didn't understand how to tune the SHO...I can tell because some of the changes are what I tried to do early on and it's evidence that the changes were being made blindly.

You are making a lot of leaps and assumptions and based on the questions you were asking me on the SCT forum you are clearly in the infancy of a tuning endeavor on an ecoboost SHO so I don't know how you can make the claims above.

Take a breath and see what the tuning can do for your SHO with SCT...You have the pro racer software I think so all you need is to add 125 for an additional license to tune your SHO.....You have a 14' just like I do...And I can tell you that you have what you need...You aren't missing all kinds of tables....My car runs the same boost and power in Drive and Sport...The throttle is a bit more touchy in sport...There is basically a pedal multiplier which causes the sensitivity and it will hold shifts longer at part throttle
 
I bought my SCT Pro Racer Package around 2003, the Pro Racer Package wasn't cheap and I had to buy the 9100 blue tuner for my first car. They took those back and gave us X-Cal 2's. I then had to buy another X-Cal 2 for another car (these were $300+) and the base file for each car is about $100. So to tune a current SHO with the PRP I already have, it would cost $400 for the X4 and $100 for the file for $500. To tune a current SHO with HPTuners, it'd be $100 to buy the 2 Ford credits.

I bought HPTuners about 3 years ago to tune a GM car. It came with 10 GM credits, which is good for about tuning 5 GM cars. The hardware wasn't cheap, but I don't need to buy anymore hardware. HPTuners has been around apparently since 2003, same amount of time I've been using SCT. SCT's Advantage has become a very slow and cumbersome software program to use (as in very sluggish), and while powerful, I'm not a fan of LiveLink either. It's a great system because there aren't many other alternatives for DIY tuning, but HPTuners flies on my Atom powered Netbook that is over 6 years old. I originally bought the HPTuners to tune my Cobalt SS Turbo, and the community has been more than helpful and forthcoming with tuning that system with numerous DIY guides and info - that Bosch/GTDI system is also used on the Opel GT/Solstice GXP/Sky Redline/HHR SS but still in very limited numbers.

I then found out HPTuners offered support on certain Fords, and they've started to expand significantly. I actually used HPTuner's VCM Scanner to datalog and help dial in the MAF transfer function on several of my Fords, it is so much easier to use than LiveLink although they perform the same tasks. This is just my opinion of course, and SCT Advantage/Livelink probably flies on a modern Core i7 laptop.

I tuned my Mustang, so I never locked my own tune. Comparing SCT's tables with HPTuner's tables for my Mustang, they're about the same except the throttle controls are locked out with SCT. Thanks for the tip about calibrator level access, I'll ask them about it but I'm not sure they'd provide access.
 
ajpturbo said:
The strategies between ECO stangs and F150's and fusion's are all different, sometimes when it's even the same car in the same year....How do you know the tables are different when you said you haven't even seen a 15 SHO?

And it wouldn't surprise me if the PTU's are the same just the PP's have the bladder for cooling on the side of the unit
Click to expand...

I just looked at the 2014 Mustang GT and 2015 Mustang GT calibrations, the 2014 does not have the drive mode tables for the throttle or shift maps. Then again, 2014 Mustang GT was using Copperhead. The 2015 Mustang GT has those tables, but uses TC-1791. The EcoBoost cars (Mustang and Taurus) use TC-1797 from what I can see, even as early as the 2012 F-150 (which btw doesn't have those tables either).

The F-150 owners noted that 2015 was the big changeover as they could access the extra tables on the 2015 (which is newer than 2014 which has had more time for the programmers to unlock). The 2012 F-150 and 2015 F-150 all use TC-1797. The tables should exist because shifting into Sport mode changes the throttle settings and shift maps, but people haven't been able to find them. It's been over 4 years since the 2012 F-150 came out, so there's been ample opportunity to unlock it with the aftermarket tuner software.

HPT only supports F-series, Mustang, and Taurus for EcoBoost engines, so I have no way to check on the Fusion/Flex/Escape models.
 
Most people cant find tables because they dont know what they are looking for.

All you have to do is ask sct for calibrator level access and they make the change then you simply need to run the updater to advantage to update your dongle.

You can believe it or not but hpt is much more incomplete for the sho right now...but they do have dmr items to log....i know dealers that have hp and sct software...they use sct...hhhmmm

You are going about it wrong....you are trying to view a value file for a sho with your mustang strategy and you arent able to see all the changes that way...and the text file i sent you wont tell you crap.

You need your strategy will full access you arent missing anything
 
The same tables dont have to exist even on similar computers...not sure why you think that....and i wouldnt listen to people on the internet

It sounds like you dont have all those strategies so u cant really see them you are just trying to load value files to the codes you have which wont work right

My 2014 copper head mustang code has a turbocharger section.....14 never had turbos
 
I think you're misunderstanding because you're maybe not using HPTuners VCM Suite or the Tune Repository. SCT requires you to buy licenses for each of the catchcodes, whereas HPTuners allows you to have read-only access for all supported vehicles. It took about 10 minutes to do a VCM read of my SHO. If you purchase credits (about $100 per vehicle), you can have read and write access. So when I say that I was looking at the calibration for a 2016 EcoBoost Mustang or a 2014 GT500, I was actually looking at a file downloaded from the actual vehicle. I wasn't using SCT Advantage to compare tables. I only did that one time to see what I could gather from the value files with my Mustang license and it was incomplete, but I had nothing else to go on at the time!

Since you're bringing up invalid tables like the turbo section for your 14 Stang, I've noticed that for other vehicles as well but I don't really pay attention to those. I see "Speed Density" in a lot of the early Ford modular calibrations with SCT Advantage even though they were mass air, or drive by wire was present even though they had a cable throttle.

As for the TXT file you sent, it was very helpful because I was able to cross-reference 99% of the tables. SCT names them differently from HPTuners, and there were only a few tables that were accessible via SCT Advantage but weren't accessible in HPTuners - and they're not all the locked tables. For example, Torque Ramp Rate Time was missing in the 2014 SHO calibration in HPTuners, but I found it in all the 2015-up EcoBoost calibrations. The same goes for Target Overall Slip Time 12 shift and 21 shift... missing in the 2014 SHO calibration, but was present in the 2015-up EcoBoost calibrations. I had to jump a bit between them. However, there were a few tables I couldn't find at all in HPTuners and it doesn't help that there's no way to search the text descriptions because that's where SCT's nomenclature is usually found in HPTuners.

I did request calibrator level access for my SCT files and they performed the change, so thanks for the tip! No one's ever told me that before in the 13 years I've been using SCT Advantage. Years ago, someone mentioned the locked tables and the response was that a training class was required to certify the tuner before they'd allow access due to liability reasons. So who knows what has changed over the years.

I know HPTuners isn't as complete for tuning Fords, but it's a lot less expensive for a DIY solution at the present. I just so happened to have HPTuners for tuning my GM LNF, otherwise I wouldn't have stumbled across it and used it. Now it's got me hooked because I never liked having to buy a $400 tuner for each car that I wanted to tune with SCT, and I already have a pair of X-Cal 2's for my Fords.

I'm not looking to add 3-bar MAPs, install a meth system, or try to pump out 500+ hp with a front-wheel 6F55 and a PTU that likes to overheat. However, I am trying to tweak the throttle sensitivity, revlimiter RPM, and shift schedule to my liking - having to constantly go back and forth with a tuner/vendor is a hassle for small things like that. Been there, done that.
 
Trans has been tested well in excess of 500 HP and I am unaware of any failures. I think Mike started to have issues at 600 WHP, maybe he will check in and clarify.

The JTekt RDU coupling is a solid piece that will eat like 1700 FT/lbs of Torque. Mrs FoMoCoSHO indicates she has never had to replace one.

The PTU failures she has seen in the past were normally due to severely uneven tire wear but the trend has changed and they are seeing more and more unexplained failures especially in the Flex and explorer. Certain local PDs have a high failure rate due to lax maintenance regarding the tires.

We've seen cars here with 30K and burnt fluid and others with 60K and the fluid is perfectly fine. Someone told me the differences in fluid being burnt or not is simply because they are either right coming off line or the tolerances are off causing the burnt fluid and the need for enhanced maintenance intervals. IDK if that is accurate but it makes sense in my head.
 
I heard about uneven tire wear as well, something small like 1/32" or 2/32" causing the failures.

Going by the old Ford designation (which I don't know if it is accurate or still true), the 6F55 should be able to handle at least 550 N-m or 405 ft-lb of torque. As for 500-600 hp though, would the stock 6F55 and the rest of the car handle that for 100k+ miles as if it came from the factory that way? I've heard the anecdotal claims back in the day, "the 4R70W can handle XXX ft-lb, all that you can throw at it... it just needs this mod and that mod..."

I recall reading the Police Interceptors have ATC's with wet clutches while the retail units have dry clutches? Is that still true for 2013-up models? Which ATC can handle 1700 ft-lb of torque, the one with wet or dry clutches?
 
It is my understanding that with the exception of the knuckles for LEO curb jumping shenanigans, 2013+PP are virtually the same running gear.

There is one Ecoboost powered cruiser in this area, the next time it is in I will have her compare part numbers.

http://www.jtekt-na.com/assets/ce/Documents/(D1002ex)%20ITCC%20-%20Intelligent%20Tourque%20Controlled%20Coupling.pdf

http://articles.sae.org/11120/

2013 SHO got the Torque Vectoring as well so I hope we are rolling with Gen 2 with the new fluid and DLC coated clutch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

jmarreroi
2017 explorer sport throttle body
Replies
2
Views
8K
jmarreroi
jmarreroi
X
Livernois Race Intercooler SHO
Replies
1
Views
4K
SHOdded
S
C
my 2017 SHO w/PP
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
27K
SHOdded
S
D
P0234 on ecoboost 2.0, 22 Maverick - Tuned
Replies
1
Views
9K
SHOdded
S
T
02 sensor extension
Replies
0
Views
3K
Thomks
T
Back
Top