please help me understand what the crap is going on? (wastegates) : Resolved!!!
- Thread starter TopherSho
- Start date
TopherSho said:
Well I'd say most of the horror stories are from people that try to update without reverting to stock like the instructions say to do....I'm not going to say this will fix anything but I update my software almost daily so there is a chance that if I made a tune and you were on some old firmware or software that might not be good.
I would update your device weekly if prompted to do so especially if you are currently in tuning sessions with someone.
So when you load a tune onto your device in the updater program and it has been prompting you to update and you ignored it?
And also the auto update box does everything in one shot...Firmware, software...The firmware update is for tech support only, it says that.
AJP turbo said:
it never prompted. but that may have been me ticking the box to not remind me on the 1st run.
i have new pids.. and some of them are for the bootstbypass valve. i am going to collect that and then a datalog using your standard config file .. probably be 90 minutes or so.
be back later
thank you everyone. getting super desperate.
Baro is embedded on the PCM.
It should be a logable parameter but IDK, my MKS has very few PIDS compared to my newer SHOs.
You have been under the assumption that overboost is the issue and maybe you need to look at it differently? As in maybe the overboost is just a symptom that is being caused by something else.
Have you logged spark source? You mentioned spark going from 28-0-28 repeatedly and I would want to know where that command is coming from.
Also, this started after a run at the strip? I'm assuming a hard launch? I would assume that isn't a coincidence and start looking at every connection I could get my hands on that could be strained by such a launch.
Are you logging misfires? Have you confirmed it is misfiring or not? If not with that kind of behavior I'm thinking ESC or TC involvement could cause that kind of behavior. I also know the newer gens have a habit of ESC faults as you cross the 100 MPH barrier. Maybe this is happening in the early models but in a different way...it seems the newer gens PCM is quite a bit more advanced.
Take a deep breath! Desperation sounds a lot like panic and all that is going to do is cloud your thinking and judgement.
It should be a logable parameter but IDK, my MKS has very few PIDS compared to my newer SHOs.
You have been under the assumption that overboost is the issue and maybe you need to look at it differently? As in maybe the overboost is just a symptom that is being caused by something else.
Have you logged spark source? You mentioned spark going from 28-0-28 repeatedly and I would want to know where that command is coming from.
Also, this started after a run at the strip? I'm assuming a hard launch? I would assume that isn't a coincidence and start looking at every connection I could get my hands on that could be strained by such a launch.
Are you logging misfires? Have you confirmed it is misfiring or not? If not with that kind of behavior I'm thinking ESC or TC involvement could cause that kind of behavior. I also know the newer gens have a habit of ESC faults as you cross the 100 MPH barrier. Maybe this is happening in the early models but in a different way...it seems the newer gens PCM is quite a bit more advanced.
Take a deep breath! Desperation sounds a lot like panic and all that is going to do is cloud your thinking and judgement.
ok here is two STOCK .96 OAR level logs.
EDIT :: looks like the SCT choppines is solved. smooth logs..
LOG1 :: One is the wealth of new pids i found .. including wastegate pids for the bypass and baraomoter.
i included a bunch fun troubleshooty sounding stuff. i have no idea if anyone else has anything they can help compare me to... if you have a 2010 with DMJKBLA id be curious if you logged the same pids on a 1-4th gear autopull what the diffs might be.
LOG2 :: std brad logging cfg file datalog.
now here's the fun new part. it is no longer doing the bad behavior in stock mode. in fact stock mode is way stronger than i recall it being.. wierd but ok. gives me about an inch of hope.
swapping back to my good solid tune from before the meth, off to drive the oar to .96 and get the same 2 logs.
FoMo; yeah Brad an i log the spark, knock, tqsrc. with the new pids i found i added anything that said 'safe', 'fault' or error and the usual tqsrc and knock and misfire to the new 'wth' config file.
when i get my 'tuned' OAR back to .96 i will run the same two logs i just attached with it, it is a 14psi tune with a emphasis on spark from brad.
all comments are appreciated.
this have been going on for almost 6 months so if it sounds like panic it is a mix of frustration, desperation panic and a dash of pissed off
the fact Ford has not idea whats going on is super frustrating.
I am very tempted to start tuning from scratch and get a base tune from brad and go through the basics again, see where we hit the wall. Brad what do you think?
EDIT :: looks like the SCT choppines is solved. smooth logs..
LOG1 :: One is the wealth of new pids i found .. including wastegate pids for the bypass and baraomoter.
i included a bunch fun troubleshooty sounding stuff. i have no idea if anyone else has anything they can help compare me to... if you have a 2010 with DMJKBLA id be curious if you logged the same pids on a 1-4th gear autopull what the diffs might be.
LOG2 :: std brad logging cfg file datalog.
now here's the fun new part. it is no longer doing the bad behavior in stock mode. in fact stock mode is way stronger than i recall it being.. wierd but ok. gives me about an inch of hope.
swapping back to my good solid tune from before the meth, off to drive the oar to .96 and get the same 2 logs.
FoMo; yeah Brad an i log the spark, knock, tqsrc. with the new pids i found i added anything that said 'safe', 'fault' or error and the usual tqsrc and knock and misfire to the new 'wth' config file.
when i get my 'tuned' OAR back to .96 i will run the same two logs i just attached with it, it is a 14psi tune with a emphasis on spark from brad.
all comments are appreciated.
this have been going on for almost 6 months so if it sounds like panic it is a mix of frustration, desperation panic and a dash of pissed off
the fact Ford has not idea whats going on is super frustrating.I am very tempted to start tuning from scratch and get a base tune from brad and go through the basics again, see where we hit the wall. Brad what do you think?
TopherSho said:ok here is two STOCK .96 OAR level logs.
LOG1 :: One is the wealth of new pids i found .. including wastegate pids for the bypass and baraomoter.
i included a bunch fun troubleshooty sounding stuff. i have no idea if anyone else has anything they can help compare me to... if you have a 2010 with DMJKBLA id be curious if you logged the same pids on a 1-4th gear autopull what the diffs might be.
LOG2 :: std brad logging cfg file datalog.
now here's the fun new part. it is no longer doing the bad behavior in stock mode. in fact stock mode is way stronger than i recall it being.. wierd but ok. gives me about an inch of hope.
swapping back to my good solid tune from before the meth, off to drive the oar to .96 and get the same 2 logs.
FoMo; yeah Brad an i log the spark, knock, tqsrc. with the new pids i found i added anything that said 'safe', 'fault' or error and the usual tqsrc and knock and misfire to the new 'wth' config file.
when i get my 'tuned' OAR back to .96 i will run the same two logs i just attached with it, it is a 14psi tune with a emphasis on spark from brad.
all comments are appreciated.
this have been going on for almost 6 months so if it sounds like panic it is a mix of frustration, desperation panic and a dash of pissed off
I am very tempted to start tuning from scratch and get a base tune from brad and go through the basics again, see where we hit the wall. Brad what do you think?
I have the same strategy... its a weird one at that. Logs like a normal stock SHO... I don't see anything there that is noteworthy..
Our strategy doesn't respond the way most strategies do, at least that is the impression I get from Brad after the 40+ revisions we have been through. Which sucks for a platitude of reasons... in any event, I am sure Brad can work through it... it could very well be a tuning issue.
Ok I am back with round #2 @ 14 pounds PSI.
Observation - on this tune :
1st gear =0 issues
2nd gear =no issues .. i think. might be placebo.
3rd gear = we have issues but to a WAY lesser degree at high RPM. it flutters and hiccups, and kind of stalls the cars speed but it at least will finish 3rd gear.
i have not looked at these, it may not be very noticable. only look at 3rd past 5000rpm.
i will now load the 15psi non-meth tune. that one all but stalls the car the last time i had it in. but those logs wont come until tomorrow.
i will add spark source to a copy of brads CFG file. i will dump a couple pids like speed, cylinder head temp, and add spark-source.
so this seems to be pressure related. but all the bits are new. turbos, boost bypass solenoid, all the hoses to the boost bypass solenoid, (2) 3bar maps.
hopefully with the 3rd set of logs where **** gets real bad we can look for differences and start putting things together.
it does seem the new turbos have added some punch..
thank you for looking .
Observation - on this tune :
1st gear =0 issues
2nd gear =no issues .. i think. might be placebo.
3rd gear = we have issues but to a WAY lesser degree at high RPM. it flutters and hiccups, and kind of stalls the cars speed but it at least will finish 3rd gear.
i have not looked at these, it may not be very noticable. only look at 3rd past 5000rpm.
i will now load the 15psi non-meth tune. that one all but stalls the car the last time i had it in. but those logs wont come until tomorrow.
i will add spark source to a copy of brads CFG file. i will dump a couple pids like speed, cylinder head temp, and add spark-source.
so this seems to be pressure related. but all the bits are new. turbos, boost bypass solenoid, all the hoses to the boost bypass solenoid, (2) 3bar maps.
hopefully with the 3rd set of logs where **** gets real bad we can look for differences and start putting things together.
it does seem the new turbos have added some punch..
thank you for looking .
Dude... those logs look really good... I can't see anything in them that shows a hiccup. NOW... I will say this... being as we both have the same strategy... sometimes with the SCT platform tunes I experience what feels like a miss.. its like a quick hiccup in the higher RPMs every once in a blue moon... happens with BCB, Unleashed, and Brad. I have spoken to Brad about it before but to date I have not been able to find a single shred of evidence in the logs to show it.
It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.
Wish I could say I saw something to help you out. I am sure Brad is probably just as frustrated...
IMHO I wouldn't load any tune that is more aggressive if the stutter and hiccups are as bad as you say. I would attempt to figure out what is going on with the mildest tune that produces the issue.
It feels like it falls on it face for a split second before going again.. its really short.. like I said.. feels like a misfire. NONE of the LMS tunes produce the same oddity buts its a different platform.
Wish I could say I saw something to help you out. I am sure Brad is probably just as frustrated...
IMHO I wouldn't load any tune that is more aggressive if the stutter and hiccups are as bad as you say. I would attempt to figure out what is going on with the mildest tune that produces the issue.
Looking good so far and much better but on the log that said "test other" your knock sensor reading went nuts and something is wrong with the reading...It went to like -20 and I know you weren't adding 20 degrees of spark and your spark was normal looking in the high teens.....I thought you had another log like that today....but the resolution looks so much better now
You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?
This is just so weird now....But you are not overboosting as of the last logs.
You say you have the meth shut off now.Is that like powered off? I've been wondering if you have something electrically backfeeding into something?
This is just so weird now....But you are not overboosting as of the last logs.
There is probably more than one 'knock' reading but i will re-scan the pids and look back in there and see if i added the wrong one.AJP turbo said:
It is toggled off. no juice in the circuit, the pump is direct to battery. the relay is ignition hot wire powered, and its wired off the ignition to a single pole toggle so i can de-power the circuit at my command. it has been of since late september/early october?AJP turbo said:
stealbluesho said:
That is EXACTLY the issue as it stands after the parts swapping. perfect description except mine hits over and over like hammer on the 14.5/15 pound tunes past 4500 rpmish in fact it feels like the car might loose enough steam to not make it to 4th gear. As much as i do not want to abuse the drive train and motor. I am still going forward with a follow-up 15 pound test where it is at its worst. (1) you said you could not see it, but i felt it in the 14 pound tune, it slowed the car down...but the issue was reduced like 75%... it is subtle so it may not be showing well enough in the 14-pound logs. (2) now that i'm not over boosting, maybe well see the issue better? or well see behavior similar to over boosting.. either way with 2800$ in parts we changed the elements of the problem so we have to retest to establish new baseline/issue parameters.
i need to swap out a few things in brads config, then switch to the 15 pound tune. might have logs tomorrow ... lets see where were at after the new parts infusion
There was another user on this forum that had issues with stuttering as well but only with SCT tunes.
My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it’s a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it’s not isolated to Brads tune but it only happens with SCT tunes.
Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...
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My stutter usually only happens one time really quick, I have had it happen once or twice where it’s a few of them back to back like you describe. Like I said, it’s not isolated to Brads tune but it only happens with SCT tunes.
Good luck in you testing... I will be following this one closely... if you can find a PID that captures what is going on that would be AWESOME. I have logged at some point every PID/DMR available looking for something...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
stealbluesho said:
You know when i talked to some guy at SCT, when i told him my firmware he sucked air through his teeth, and every pid/dmr i ever asked for to be added to the tuner has gone to the wastebasket. it seems this firmware is an issue.
the weird thing is it happend a little over time. I felt it before, but not like it is now. and the day after running my 12.6 runs for 20 runs it became 100% worse. I had thought it was the pump.. but I now know better.
well if it keeps doing what it did prior to the SCT update and reset the 15 pound tune logs will show a horror show. i HOPE the spark does it 28-0-28 bit. with spark sourse maybe ... maybe well get something.