The Next Level - Improving Drag Times - Ideas

[shoNoff]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

 

[802SHO]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

You put a radial on it right now and you are in the 1.60's.

True.  Its already a 1.72. 

 

[802SHO]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

Yeah, you're probably right.  New TC from GH?  I was thinking an 18x10 with a nice set of tires with enough sidewall to equal about the same outside diameter of my wheel/tire now.  All black so the smaller wheel isn't so noticeable.

 

[SHOdded]

It is interesting that tires make so much of a difference.  Tire size makes effective gear ratio changes.  Equally important is tire pressure and sidewall softness.  Why?  Traction.  Ever watch Indy cars in action and how they crinkle?  That gets you going out of the gate.  Of course firmer sidewalls help you down the line, so you have to find thst balance. 

Tire pressures first.  No cost to try.  Typically 25-27 psi, may be just front, or all around.  Each tire type will behave differently.  If these are your dd tires, and you decide to use softer sidewall tires, raise pressure a bit to 40 psi to retain feel and performance on the roads.

 

[sm105k]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

Honestly, I think the stock TC is more then adequate in our platform.  However, these cars are extremely heavy esp with the FWD bias.  I think a 18 rim and soft side wall isn't going to work as well as if he were to just strap a MT ET Street Pro on his current rims. 

The sidewall wrinkle could hook too well and bog the car. It will also put way more strain on the drive components.  The MT will give a little and slip a touch which will give him better traction and allow quicker wheel speed.  Also the tire will stay stable at high speed. 

He could even start the process of getting a two step.  That would help as well. 

 

[shoNoff]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

Honestly, I think the stock TC is more then adequate in our platform.  However, these cars are extremely heavy esp with the FWD bias.  I think a 18 rim and soft side wall isn't going to work as well as if he were to just strap a MT ET Street Pro on his current rims. 

The sidewall wrinkle could hook too well and bog the car. It will also put way more strain on the drive components.  The MT will give a little and slip a touch which will give him better traction and allow quicker wheel speed.  Also the tire will stay stable at high speed. 

He could even start the process of getting a two step.  That would help as well.

So you are saving a torque convert designed for a luxury car with 365hp and 350tq is adequate for drag racing that car? Maybe at stock power levels. But at the power some of these guys are making it could be approved on. Just having a high stall would get these pigs off the line a bit harder. Plus having the higher stall speed could get rid of the hook bog. Also a slick with a softer sidewall is much easier on driveline components then a radial. The stiffer side wall of a radial creates wheel hop. The softer side wall absorbs driveline shock. A radial would be more stable on the street for high speed stability no doubt. Now I’m not saying slicks on an sho would work because they wouldn’t. You can’t get heat into them properly with the fwd biased system. Unfortunately at the moment we are forced into radials and 2200rpm launches. Plus it’s about inertia it’s much easier to get a small wheel moving. Hence why most drag cars run 15 inch wheels.

 

[sm105k]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

Honestly, I think the stock TC is more then adequate in our platform.  However, these cars are extremely heavy esp with the FWD bias.  I think a 18 rim and soft side wall isn't going to work as well as if he were to just strap a MT ET Street Pro on his current rims. 

The sidewall wrinkle could hook too well and bog the car. It will also put way more strain on the drive components.  The MT will give a little and slip a touch which will give him better traction and allow quicker wheel speed.  Also the tire will stay stable at high speed. 

He could even start the process of getting a two step.  That would help as well.

So you are saving a torque convert designed for a luxury car with 365hp and 350tq is adequate for drag racing that car? Maybe at stock power levels. But at the power some of these guys are making it could be approved on. Just having a high stall would get these pigs off the line a bit harder. Plus having the higher stall speed could get rid of the hook bog. Also a slick with a softer sidewall is much easier on driveline components then a radial. The stiffer side wall of a radial creates wheel hop. The softer side wall absorbs driveline shock. A radial would be more stable on the street for high speed stability no doubt. Now I’m not saying slicks on an sho would work because they wouldn’t. You can’t get heat into them properly with the fwd biased system. Unfortunately at the moment we are forced into radials and 2200rpm launches. Plus it’s about inertia it’s much easier to get a small wheel moving. Hence why most drag cars run 15 inch wheels.

Yes. I am saying that the TQ is adequate for the application.  Even with the power levels these are making it is still stupid low compared to others.  This is not a drag car.  It never will be as much as we want to argue about it.  It is a "luxury" car.  If people want to go stupid fast get a rear wheel drive car.  We are trying to go fast in a niche market.  Will a converter help?  Who knows.  The track record says no. Will I welcome the development...of course. 

A slick on a heavy fwd car will bog even with a high converter, esp when it starts transferring power to the rear...that will make it worse.  That will cause more strain on the FWD components because of the excessive grip.  You are using logic with your slick knowledge for a rear wheel drive car, you even said it. You can get heat into a slick on a SHO.  All you have to do disable the rear clutches, there are numerous ways to do this.

A two step, radial, and stock TC will be the quickest set up right now.  Hell if TQ Source could be eliminated cars could launch at 2800 rpm, and that will be awesome.    I have a log of my car holding the line at 2800 rpm, then it just keels over and dies because of TQ Source when I launch. 

Until a proven TQ is produced we are limited to exactly what you said. I am willing to bet all things being equal, a radial will always go faster than a slick on this platform.     

 

[ZSHO]

I think Tire weight should also be a factor and noticed my previous zet of Conti-DW summer tires were 5lbs lighter per wheel when compared to my current Dunlop sports.

Conti-DW - 29lbs

Dunlop sport- 34lbs

I'm not quite certain but the extra weight per wheel can sometimes cause potential traction issues to the AWD system but ultimately cause wear and tear to the suspension component's.

BTW- I'm hoping to be added to this thread in full gear and weight once I can troubleshoot this clunking noise coming from the front driver's side along with an wheel alignment! Fingers crossed. Z

 

[sm105k]

I think Tire weight should also be a factor and noticed my previous zet of Conti-DW summer tires were 5lbs lighter per wheel when compared to my current Dunlop sport.

Conti-DW - 29lbs

Dunlops- 34lbs

I'm not quite certain but the extra weight per wheel can sometimes cause potential traction issues to the AWD system but ultimately cause wear and tear to the suspension component's.



BTW- I'm hoping to be added to this thread in full gear and weight once I can troubleshoot this clunking noise coming from the front driver's side along with an wheel alignment! Fingers crossed. Z

I too will be going to the track full weight with the same Conti-DW's as I did last time.  However, with new wider & lighter rims, TQ mounts, and dp's with my custom resonator set up.  Hopefully we can get close to clicking off an 11 with that set up.  I wanted to go to Street Car Takeover this past weekend, but the SHO wasn't out of the shop so yeah....

 

[802SHO]

Get after it Z and Easton!  I think the Conti DW are fairly decent overall and have taken me very far.  Yes I was also looking at tire weight.  With the XDI pump and upgraded nitrous dry shot to wet kit I should be able to overcome the additional 7 pounds per tire of the MT radial.  Those hogs weigh 36 pounds....however I am interested in going with a smaller wheel.....if I change wheels I'll go 10" wide, ditch my spacers and keep the overall same diameter by increasing sidewall.  But keeping my wheels and getting different tires sounds easier.  I'll leave the TC alone until I have to...but who knows as BPD is set to test GH's TC upgrade...not sure what version he has as I believe there are different ones to choose from.  Also BPD should be set to annihilate all records coming up next season.  Would be cool to see him just take it to a location still open.  Dyno numbers at least when it's done I hope. 

 

[SHOdded]

Lightening the tire/wheel setup can also cause hop, so balance is required.

Also, bpd's trans has been on stock converter since day 1.  A higher stall converter actually slowed track times down for a former member here.  So pick your pizen.

 

[6500rpm]

The tire/wheel size could be a valid point with some limitations. This is going back some 30+ years ago, but I ran a 67 Camaro w/ 4.88 differential gears on 15" wheels and 31"x11" slicks. Depending on the diameter of the tire you can effectively change the final gear ratio to some degree for you guys tracking your car. I thought the non PP gear ratio cars were making up for it on the top end.  I was also playing with a friends dirt modified back then, and (not that it was fooling any cops and were not DOT) I ran a set of Hoosier tires with a medium compound on it around town occasionally. They were soft enough to keep the rocks out of the rubber, but plenty sticky compared to street tires. No clue how any of this plays out on a AWD vehicle, but if you want to go fast and have the money to throw at it for shits n grins......

 

[shoNoff]

There WILL be a next time, so do not despair   Now let's get to work on those 1.6s for your 60' !!!

I need some serious launch time.  And a new set of brakes, tires and suspension.

It’s more a torque converter issue then the brakes for holding the car at the line. I wonder if going to an 18inch wheel and using more sidewall would help these cars launch. I’m thinking out loud god I had ideas. Stupid RDU and kids.

Honestly, I think the stock TC is more then adequate in our platform.  However, these cars are extremely heavy esp with the FWD bias.  I think a 18 rim and soft side wall isn't going to work as well as if he were to just strap a MT ET Street Pro on his current rims. 

The sidewall wrinkle could hook too well and bog the car. It will also put way more strain on the drive components.  The MT will give a little and slip a touch which will give him better traction and allow quicker wheel speed.  Also the tire will stay stable at high speed. 

He could even start the process of getting a two step.  That would help as well.

So you are saving a torque convert designed for a luxury car with 365hp and 350tq is adequate for drag racing that car? Maybe at stock power levels. But at the power some of these guys are making it could be approved on. Just having a high stall would get these pigs off the line a bit harder. Plus having the higher stall speed could get rid of the hook bog. Also a slick with a softer sidewall is much easier on driveline components then a radial. The stiffer side wall of a radial creates wheel hop. The softer side wall absorbs driveline shock. A radial would be more stable on the street for high speed stability no doubt. Now I’m not saying slicks on an sho would work because they wouldn’t. You can’t get heat into them properly with the fwd biased system. Unfortunately at the moment we are forced into radials and 2200rpm launches. Plus it’s about inertia it’s much easier to get a small wheel moving. Hence why most drag cars run 15 inch wheels.

Yes. I am saying that the TQ is adequate for the application.  Even with the power levels these are making it is still stupid low compared to others.  This is not a drag car.  It never will be as much as we want to argue about it.  It is a "luxury" car.  If people want to go stupid fast get a rear wheel drive car.  We are trying to go fast in a niche market.  Will a converter help?  Who knows.  The track record says no. Will I welcome the development...of course. 

A slick on a heavy fwd car will bog even with a high converter, esp when it starts transferring power to the rear...that will make it worse.  That will cause more strain on the FWD components because of the excessive grip.  You are using logic with your slick knowledge for a rear wheel drive car, you even said it. You can get heat into a slick on a SHO.  All you have to do disable the rear clutches, there are numerous ways to do this.

A two step, radial, and stock TC will be the quickest set up right now.  Hell if TQ Source could be eliminated cars could launch at 2800 rpm, and that will be awesome.    I have a log of my car holding the line at 2800 rpm, then it just keels over and dies because of TQ Source when I launch. 

Until a proven TQ is produced we are limited to exactly what you said. I am willing to bet all things being equal, a radial will always go faster than a slick on this platform.   

Doesnt matter it it’s awd, fwd rwd or anything else. The fact of the matter is a slick dead hooking is less shock to the drivetrain then a radial. It’s proven the platform doesn’t matter. A drag radial gets its traction from the compound alone and has a stiff side wall to corner on the street. The side wall takes none of the shock what so ever. The stiff side wall is prone to wheel hop. On a bias ply slick the side wall absorbs some the shock even on a dead hook. From personal experience on 10 second Fwd and many buddy’s with 9 second dsm’s. Trust me we broke a ton more parts on radial tires. But again my only fwd comparison is with stick cars. A lot more shock on a launch in a stick car for sure. The t/c we fully agree is fine for street and occasional track. But I took it to the extreme I’m thinking drag car here. Sometimes Andrew likes to take things to the extreme in his building lol. This i will say though, just because one person tried and failed on the t/c doesn’t mean it will not work. Hell people just 2 years ago here were saying radials would never work on this car. All this being said I fully agree a 2step and radial with the stock tc would be the best set up right now. The only way I believe a slick would work on this platform would be a true 50/50 awd split or rear biased system. Even then a stock weight sho might be a bit to heavy and be unstable on the big end with a bias ply.

Now that Easton and I have taken the thread way off topic I’m sorry. Anyways good luck SM105K and Z. I hope to see 2 more 11 second cars up in this thread very soon. You both deserve it and have put tons of work in for it.

 

[802SHO]

Lightening the tire/wheel setup can also cause hop, so balance is required.

Also, bpd's trans has been on stock converter since day 1.  A higher stall converter actually slowed track times down for a former member here.  So pick your pizen.

Not anymore though right?  Installing the GH TC on his new build and it was a 4 bolt when stock is a 3 bolt....I remember as we both have a 2010 so I would need to accomodate a 4 bolt as well. 

 

[802SHO]

Tim, its all good buddy, the content about the tires with you and Easton is relevant to the comments of what to change next year to try to go deeper into the 11's.  Good stuff! 

 

[SHOdded]

Not anymore though right?  Installing the GH TC on his new build and it was a 4 bolt when stock is a 3 bolt....I remember as we both have a 2010 so I would need to accomodate a 4 bolt as well. 

Yes he is upgrading.  But all this time, he was completely stock.  bpd takes precautionary steps well in advance, and this time in anticipation of the major leap in power from the last peak, it was simply one more step deemed vital to success.

 

[ZSHO]

I just can't put my foot on it  but with the Continental-DW had a best 1.72 60' when compared to Dunlops sports 1.84 60' best! Both are summer tires with 5lb weight difference per wheel as mentioned earlier!
Great overall Discussion folks. Z

 

[shoNoff]

I just can't put my foot on it  but with the Continental-DW had a best 1.72 60' when compared to Dunlops sports 1.84 60' best! Both are summer tires with 5lb weight difference per wheel as mentioned earlier!
Great overall Discussion folks. Z

Hammer down Z! You got the 60 foot and the power that thing will run 11’s.

 

[sm105k]

Yeah the Conti's work.  I went 1.77 to sixty feet with my old tune, stock tq mounts, with my heavier and narrower flowers. 

With that setup the SHO would consistently 0-60 mph on my Livewire 4.5 seconds. It is consistently in the low 4.3 second range now with the new set up with a little spin.  So hopefully a 1.6x is the cards when I go to the track next time which is look like 11/8. 

 

 

[shoNoff]

Yeah the Conti's work.  I went 1.77 to sixty feet with my old tune, stock tq mounts, with my heavier and narrower flowers. 

With that setup the SHO would consistently 0-60 mph on my Livewire 4.5 seconds. It is consistently in the low 4.3 second range now with the new set up with a little spin.  So hopefully a 1.6x is the cards when I go to the track next time which is look like 11/8. 

I can’t wait to see how you feel about mounts compared to racing without. I wish I got to run mine with the mounts. They felt awesome on the street.