Upgraded HPFP from Livernois MotorSports for the 3.5 Ecoboost SHO

[StealBlueSHO]

Just an FYI, I pinged LMS on Facebook about when they are going to be getting an upgraded HPFP for the SHO 3.5 Ecoboost. The response was "Very Shortly"... 

Positive news for those of use who are not knock limited but fuel pressure limited...

 

[yo tony]

Please oh please say it is so

 

[ZSHO]

I hope LME will chime in and shed some light on exactly what's in the works.....fingers crossed.  Z

 

[4DRHTRD]

$1800 ++ I would imagine per the pricing I've seen on the pump.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

$1800 ++ I would imagine per the pricing I've seen on the pump.

While that price seems exuberant to me, I don't think I would be terribly surprised.... This is a known need for this platform.. and they would be the only ones making the part... soooooo sky's the limit on price... pretty normal... I am assuming they would be releasing it along with a tune to take advantage of the extra fuel. So the question becomes will you need anything for the updated tune in addition to the HPFP??? or is $1,800 going to be the lion share of the expense?

Although with all your testing on this platform, wasn't it a combination of LPFP and HPFP that was going to be needed? Honestly I have read so many posts I can't remember....

 

[bpd1151]

In a nutshell, the LPFP has NEVER been the problem. NEVER.

The problem has ALWAYS BEEN the HPFP.

The LPFP only becomes an issue when you run an auxiliary set of injectors and/or run E85 (at w/e varying percentage one chooses).

I also am understanding that LMS isn't the only vendor heading to market with a new, upgraded HPFP. But me personally, LMS will always get my money as they have been the stalwarts of the EB platform, since its' inception.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[StealBlueSHO]

In a nutshell, the LPFP has NEVER been the problem. NEVER.

The problem has ALWAYS BEEN the HPFP.

The LPFP only becomes an issue when you run an auxiliary set of injectors and/or run E85 (at w/e varying percentage one chooses).

I also am understanding that LMS isn't the only vendor heading to market with a new, upgraded HPFP. But me personally, LMS will always get my money as they have been the stalwarts of the EB platform, since its' inception.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Makes sense.. I remember he was experimenting with auxiliary injectors and there are several people who play with E85 for various reasons....

I did see another company looking at making a HPFP... time will tell IF we actually see one which I suspect we will... and if there are two providers which should help keep the costs down...

With your built motor and methanol AND no more fueling issue might we see the first Gen4 10 second pass? Maybe?!

 

[SHOdded]

Trans limit is what is holding the Great White back.

 

[4DRHTRD]

Unlike BPD I have actually played with LPFP upgrades in my own car and tested it, I did find a difference on my Flex in testing that I could run approximately E50 on stock turbos vs E30 at a boost referenced 60PSI vs the factory flat 50 PSI. Repeating information vs actually testing it and appearing as though one is educated in all things automotive leads to bad information out there.
That being said the HPFP that everyone is offering is coming from one place, just being labeled differently for different vendors from what I'm seeing.
I don't plan on carrying it, IMHO it's too much money for not enough results. I do not believe it will have enough flow for full E85 on a tune V6 application so the only thing that will support full E85 will be an aux fueling system on the V6 until it's proven otherwise.
Honestly on this platform doing mild upgrades to get you into the 12's is the smartest case scenario, transmissions have failed on most of the big HP cars out there and there's no fix once they do break other than another stock transmission. My suggestion to you all is to get to around 450WHP and stop unless you like lighting money on fire and having a huge headache from smashing your face into the wall repeatedly.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

That being said the HPFP that everyone is offering is coming from one place, just being labeled differently for different vendors from what I'm seeing.

Honestly on this platform doing mild upgrades to get you into the 12's is the smartest case scenario, transmissions have failed on most of the big HP cars out there and there's no fix once they do break other than another stock transmission. My suggestion to you all is to get to around 450WHP and stop unless you like lighting money on fire and having a huge headache from smashing your face into the wall repeatedly.

I was curious if that was the case... but LMS likes to put their own spin on things...re-band something.. add the word "Thunder".. mark it up %15 or more... say its custom... and away they go! At least their bolt on upgrades appear that way for the SHO...I could be wrong... Their tunes are organic though, and well done....

450WHP is plenty respectable for a Taurus and they are stoplight monsters with AWD.. you are not going to loose to much on the street... I am done with mine unless some ground breaking modification comes out that I can't live without.. I have maybe put 100 miles on her in the past two months?

 

[4DRHTRD]

BTW, BPD I have no issue with you putting LMS says before all of your statements, that lets people know that it's coming from them but when you make these comments it looks like it's coming from actual information that you have tried/done yourself and you and I both know that you only know what you are informed of, you don't have real world experience actually building/creating modifications with results. I remember a day when you were parroting the whole E85 is bad thing but now that LMS has changed their position....
In the end I only know what I've done to my car that I've tested and have results on, sometimes I'll take others word on things but I still trust but verify. I think it was pretty dang courageous of me to take a $30K+++ Flex and tear the manifold off and have injector bungs welded on there to try an experiment in fueling and it worked out, paying off with the first 600WHP dyno pull. If only the dang trans had held together but it is what it is.

 

[J-Will]

More vehicles are limited by fuel than are breaking the trans.  If this is an evolutionary process, then fixing the fuel problem first takes priority.  Call it supply and demand, or the scientific process of getting a sufficient population to higher HP levels to see where the next limitation is or what consistently breaks next.

Will this cause other issues to surface?  Yes.  And hopefully an aftermarket company will fix that too.  Will it be the LP?  Will it be the trans?  We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[SHOdded]

The point being, let's wait till the product comes out and see what LME says can be accomplished with only that 1 change (and tuning of course).  If it takes you to the practical limit of the drivetrain on pump gas, without methanol injection/big turbos etc., then that provides another road to follow.  IIRC, it is not that difficult to replace the HPFP.  Maybe not as easy (!) as spark plugs, but definitely way easier than injectors LOL.

 

[SHOdded]

More vehicles are limited by fuel than are breaking the trans.

Maybe so, but Mike (EPP) has already been there done that, so his experience cannot be discounted.  I guess we need to be clear what power levels we refer to when making statements.  I know Mike (bpd) has 2 tune files, a 500 AWHP and a 600 AWHP.  He is able to run the 500AWHP safely as a DD from what I remember.  The 600AWHP file was basically track only.

 

[4DRHTRD]

More vehicles are limited by fuel than are breaking the trans.  If this is an evolutionary process, then fixing the fuel problem first takes priority.  Call it supply and demand, or the scientific process of getting a sufficient population to higher HP levels to see where the next limitation is or what consistently breaks next.

Will this cause other issues to surface?  Yes.  And hopefully an aftermarket company will fix that too.  Will it be the LP?  Will it be the trans?  We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

It's the transmission, as per my post all the 550+ WHP cars have broken their trans so far except BPD as he's detuned or he's done it and not talking about it. I know for a fact that the other two have as well as I did in my Flex.

 

[bamsho]

BPD is still on the stock original transmission, with over 75K on it.  Yes he is running the middle tune file, which is below the threshold that FMC saw transmission failures. 

As for the new bigger pumps, my concern is cam failure.  On the transverse platform, the pump is in the middle of the cam, not towards the rear of the head like on the F150.

 

[SHOdded]

Cam failure would NOT be good!  I am sure though that the new pump will only be released after thorough testing, so there's at least that ...

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Just an FYI, I pinged LMS on Facebook about when they are going to be getting an upgraded HPFP for the SHO 3.5 Ecoboost. The response was "Very Shortly"... 

Positive news for those of use who are not knock limited but fuel pressure limited...

We are still testing the HPFP, working on the fuel line and manufacturing now so stay tuned and keep an eye on what updates come out "Shortly" as we progress to the final product.

I hope LME will chime in and shed some light on exactly what's in the works.....fingers crossed.  Z

We cannot disclose any more specific details until the official release once everything is buttoned up and ready for sale. Our goal is to release the HPFP as soon as possible but, like all of our in-house manufactured and engineered parts, we want to provide the highest quality of craftsmanship and function to the consumer. We want these to be free of any issues that could arise during a scramble to release effort. So everyone be patient, they will be worth the wait!

Stay tuned on all of our outlets for the official release.

 

[ZSHO]

I truly appreciate LME keeping the ecoboost community up to date with there latest upgrades to the ecoboost platform. Z  :thumb:

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

More vehicles are limited by fuel than are breaking the trans.  If this is an evolutionary process, then fixing the fuel problem first takes priority.  Call it supply and demand, or the scientific process of getting a sufficient population to higher HP levels to see where the next limitation is or what consistently breaks next.

Will this cause other issues to surface?  Yes.  And hopefully an aftermarket company will fix that too.  Will it be the LP?  Will it be the trans?  We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I'm running 17+ PSI with 25 degrees of advance with E30.

Quite honestly, I don't think we need full E85 capability except for the convenience factor. With DI, a blend is the best of all worlds....massive knock resistance, fuel economy (if you care about such things) and the add packs that come with top tier 93. E-85 is great but keep in mind it is made with the crappiest base stock to be found.

Play with the enrichment...you don't need as much as soon with E85 directly injected. Look at the Ford/AVL study in the fuels section, the answer is there.

The 30% buffer of the upgraded pump would allow at least E40-50 which will allow you to crank up the spark ...to a level that will probably blow the motor before you see knock.