SRT82ECOBOOST
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What would be the expectations for gains of going to upgraded turbos on a Stage 4+ build (CAI,downpipes, exhaust and tune)?
Upgraded Turbos: Expected Gains
- Thread starter SRT82ECOBOOST
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There are 3 options (as of today hopefully)
1. Turbos Direct via my company with stock sized (48mm) billet compressor wheels
2. Tial via Livernois with 52mm billet compressor wheels
3. ATP turbo +1 and +2 turbo upgrades via my company (or direct)
We are lucky that within the last year these options are available. I have to head back to the dyno to do a post turbo upgrade check, after I installed mine I had boost leaks like crazy and couldn't resolve them, the new hot pipes has finally taken care of it. The only evidence I can give currently is my car ran 12.4@109 on the new turbos with only 17psi and 5800' DA when I last went. I don't know if I can make the track again before I do the new turbo upgrades but will definitely have dyno done with current setup.
There are three guys on the Tial turbos (I think) that I am aware of, Darrelli has posted dynos somewhere but I don't believe they have attempted to truly max out that upgrade but I believe there's a 500WHP out there on these turbos.
The ATP + 1 and + 2 turbo setups will be going out either today or first part of next week to myself and BPD. I am having mine installed immediately and will report back as soon as I can. ATP is also putting dyno and track testing findings out when they launch according to the info I've been told. I will also be dyno testing and track testing ASAP after getting these installed.
1. Turbos Direct via my company with stock sized (48mm) billet compressor wheels
2. Tial via Livernois with 52mm billet compressor wheels
3. ATP turbo +1 and +2 turbo upgrades via my company (or direct)
We are lucky that within the last year these options are available. I have to head back to the dyno to do a post turbo upgrade check, after I installed mine I had boost leaks like crazy and couldn't resolve them, the new hot pipes has finally taken care of it. The only evidence I can give currently is my car ran 12.4@109 on the new turbos with only 17psi and 5800' DA when I last went. I don't know if I can make the track again before I do the new turbo upgrades but will definitely have dyno done with current setup.
There are three guys on the Tial turbos (I think) that I am aware of, Darrelli has posted dynos somewhere but I don't believe they have attempted to truly max out that upgrade but I believe there's a 500WHP out there on these turbos.
The ATP + 1 and + 2 turbo setups will be going out either today or first part of next week to myself and BPD. I am having mine installed immediately and will report back as soon as I can. ATP is also putting dyno and track testing findings out when they launch according to the info I've been told. I will also be dyno testing and track testing ASAP after getting these installed.
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
What turbos are you running?4DRHTRD said:
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
If you had to guess, what is the horsepower gain for the turbo upgrade you went with?4DRHTRD said:
I am trying to stay away from going with meth injection if at all possible and still hit the 11 second range.
I would guess I'm right around 450WHP right now on the bottom side of guessing. Optimistically right around 500ish but I'll find out next week.
I am going to say no way possible to hit 11's on stock fueling, you're out of fuel and require some type of fuel system upgrade either Meth to augment or an in tank fuel pump upgrade to help out the DI pump.
I am going to say no way possible to hit 11's on stock fueling, you're out of fuel and require some type of fuel system upgrade either Meth to augment or an in tank fuel pump upgrade to help out the DI pump.
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
I guess I am just going to have to get over my fear of using 100% meth the same way I learned to get over my fear of nitrous.4DRHTRD said:
4DRHTRD said:
What do you base your horsepower numbers on?
I still entirely disagree on your fuel "thinking". You keep saying I'm "I'm using methanol for fuel"...not the case. I'm using methanol to decrease temps and prevent detonation. That I agree with. With my fuel rail pressure my a/f remains 10.8-11.0. If it leaned out to 12 or so..I'd say I was out of fuel. If my programmer ran his tunes at an a/f ratio of around 12 at wot like yours does...yes...maybe you'd be running out of fuel.
Darrel do you think you can hit 11's on stock fuel system?
HP numbers is based on the last time I went down the track, plug in some weights of 5100lbs and 12.3 or 109 and you'll have a good guesstimate of my HP. People like to ask for HP numbers but I don't really care, as long as it gets me down the track quickly I'm happy. The faster I go the happier I get
Also why do you think I'm at 12.0AFR I've posted tons of videos with Torque app running I'm at 10ish AFR, luckily E85 doesn't lose power like gas does with too rich scenario like gas does. I'm trying to get mine right at high 10's now with some data logging but having some issues with fine tuning on the current aux fuel controller. This is an older video but on new turbos and aux fuel system and 50/50 E85 with old fuel pump/fuel cell under the hood.
Boost leak fixed
HP numbers is based on the last time I went down the track, plug in some weights of 5100lbs and 12.3 or 109 and you'll have a good guesstimate of my HP. People like to ask for HP numbers but I don't really care, as long as it gets me down the track quickly I'm happy. The faster I go the happier I get
Also why do you think I'm at 12.0AFR I've posted tons of videos with Torque app running I'm at 10ish AFR, luckily E85 doesn't lose power like gas does with too rich scenario like gas does. I'm trying to get mine right at high 10's now with some data logging but having some issues with fine tuning on the current aux fuel controller. This is an older video but on new turbos and aux fuel system and 50/50 E85 with old fuel pump/fuel cell under the hood.
Boost leak fixed
4DRHTRD said:
I think I can...I think I'm already there honestly. It's more so traction and torque converter for me. I think if I lived out east I would've ran 11s last year and I'm still on the stock fuel system. Do I think you can do it without methanol or nitrous...no.
I think the limits haven't been reached on the stock fuel system or the stock engine internals. Only time will tell
But the key is he wants to run 11's without meth, can't be done IMHO and that's what I was saying. You need a way to supplement the stock fuel system to get to the power levels required to get it done. I'm betting that if you put 108 unleaded octane in your car for safety and unhooked meth you'd hit fuel cut. Love to see a log of that!darreli said:
Whoops, I edited your post instead of quotingdarreli said:
Yes, I was around 11.2 AFR with or without nitrous. Nitrous was ran once tapping into stock lift pump, I didn't trust it so I installed the aux fuel tank/fuel pump under the hood.
I need to slap a stock SHO or Flex on the dyno with a fuel pressure gauge on the pre-HPFP side and start tuning. I bet we can make it run out of fuel pretty dang quickly on stock turbos. I'm starting to guess the Livernois extra tables includes some ability to turn off the nannies for when the car sees the HPFP running low on pressure, when my car sees that it immediately closes the throttle to compensate and then ramps up again.
I'd like to add a little bit to this fueling "debate" I know Livernois strongly believes the car has fuel, however in working with multiple tuners including:
All other tuners agree the trucks and/or cars depending on what platform they're tuning are out of fuel with mild mods.
I'm not just making stuff up or parroting information, I'm consulting with knowledgable tuners and I have TONS of data logging with my car and being a crazy man and trying things most would only dream off as far as stupidity. Twice yesterday I forgot I was in manual and hit the rev limiter HARD in first gear at WOT, I'm going to be the death of my own car....
All other tuners agree the trucks and/or cars depending on what platform they're tuning are out of fuel with mild mods.
I'm not just making stuff up or parroting information, I'm consulting with knowledgable tuners and I have TONS of data logging with my car and being a crazy man and trying things most would only dream off as far as stupidity. Twice yesterday I forgot I was in manual and hit the rev limiter HARD in first gear at WOT, I'm going to be the death of my own car....
Not to knock this off track. But is it possible to run a E50 (50% E10/50% E85) on stock HPFP? I am almost positive 4DRHTRD tried it at some point.
EDIT after realizing what i just read, how 4DR was saying we are already out of fuel, i am assuming No since E85 is more dense. Please correct me if i am wrong because the benefits of E85 is HUGE, especially for DI
EDIT after realizing what i just read, how 4DR was saying we are already out of fuel, i am assuming No since E85 is more dense. Please correct me if i am wrong because the benefits of E85 is HUGE, especially for DI
EcoBrick Bob
New member
In running around 70% Methanol and with my KB Boost-A-Pump with Torrie's modded tunes and 93 E-10, I saw FRP drop as low as 850. We backed off some and attempted to keep FRP above 1,200 psi and Lambda no higher than .82 on both banks. I'm sure that if I had been running 100% methanol that I would have been able to get more out of my Flex with the same goals above, but at 70%, we had maxed the fuel capabilities of my system in Torrie's opinion. Generally, it appears to me that a Flex is about .5 seconds slower than a SHO with the same mods.
EcoBrick Bob
New member
I actually was spraying Boost Juice (49% methanol) plus extra methanol mixed in. It is available from Summit Racing in 4 gal packages. 50% or greater concentrations of Methanol are considered flammable so can't be shipped as easily. Was using a #10 nozzle (10 gal per hr at 100 psi) using a 250 max psi pump and a simple on/off switch that is boost activated - 7-8 psi.
Still trying to decide if I will re-install my Methanol Spray system. If so, I plan on using 100% Methanol so I can be consistent in my tuning needs. The low point in FRP seems to always be at the top of 2nd gear, which is also when my boost reaches it's max.
I am able to buy 100% methanol at Cedar Falls Raceway for $3.00 a gallon. They have it in a bulk tank and pump it out just like gasoline. Unfortunately I have no area sources for 100 octane unleaded gas. Waiting for a reasonably priced LPFP option. Dreaming about a reasonably priced HPFP..... and Ford deciding to do what is necessary to make this EB engine a Flex-Fuel vehicle.
Still trying to decide if I will re-install my Methanol Spray system. If so, I plan on using 100% Methanol so I can be consistent in my tuning needs. The low point in FRP seems to always be at the top of 2nd gear, which is also when my boost reaches it's max.
I am able to buy 100% methanol at Cedar Falls Raceway for $3.00 a gallon. They have it in a bulk tank and pump it out just like gasoline. Unfortunately I have no area sources for 100 octane unleaded gas. Waiting for a reasonably priced LPFP option. Dreaming about a reasonably priced HPFP..... and Ford deciding to do what is necessary to make this EB engine a Flex-Fuel vehicle.