What is really important in a turbo intake?

91hybrid

New member
I was playing around with some data thinking about intakes and what really matters. What I figured out was that turbo outlet temps is all that matters. Some may not know that air that is pulled in by the compressor has work done to it. This work or energy cannot be created or destroyed, so it is converted from mechanical energy to heat. This heat makes the compressed air exiting the turbo much hotter than the air that entered.

There are three key indicators that control exit temperatures:

Inlet temp
Pressure ratio (outlet pressure (psia)/(inlet pressure (psia))
And compressor efficiency (from map)

In this example I theorized a smaller turbo setup supplying about 12-14 psi to the manifold (14psi at turbo exit), atmospheric pressure of 14.7psi, and since our turbos are tiny they will be on the high side of the map in the 68% efficiency range.

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For "stock baseline" I assumed that there was 14.7 psia at the inlet (no restriction) with the same 68% efficiency and 14 psi turbo exit boost.

Then I theoretically put on a restrictive intake reducing the inlet pressure to 12.7 psia from 14.7 psia while all other factors were held constant. This line is listed as "-2 inlet restriction".

Lastly I sprung for some theoretical atp turbos and went from the far end of the compressor map at 68% to the meat of the compressor map at 75% while leaving every thing else as the same as the stock. Labeled as "high efficiency"

As you can see sucking in 20 degree hotter air than ambient resulted in a 26 deg rise in exit temperature. While restricting the intake and have cool air resulted in a 40 degree rise in exit temperature.

Lastly the high efficiency turbos lowered the exit temperature 16 deg on a 70 degree day vs the baseline.

I hope this can illustrate that not only does intake temps matter, but inlet flow matters too as it will raise exit temperatures as much, if not more than inlet temps.

Those sweet atp's may not be worth the cost of you don't plan on pushing past the stockers capability.

John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Excellent analysis John,its findings and readings could fluctuate depending if your at sea level or up in the Rocky mountains,sea level would be 14.7,pounds per square in absolute,my basic question is wouldnt the readings change in high altitude,compared to sea level and would that play a significant role.
 
ZSHO said:
Excellent analysis John,its findings and readings could fluctuate depending if your at sea level or up in the Rocky mountains,sea level would be 14.7,pounds per square in absolute,my basic question is wouldnt the readings change in high altitude,compared to sea level and would that play a significant role.


The -2 psia test just happens to be the atmospheric pressure at 4000 foot, and 10,000 foot the psia is 10.1 psi which would drive the pressure ratio up higher requiring more work to hit the same boost target resulting in higher outlet temperatures. Anything that drives the pressure ratio up means the exit temperature is going up as well.
 
SHOnUup said:
Awesome write up.

Only 7% more efficient with the turbo upgrade?

Rich

Depends on where you are on the map. Most maps do go below 60%. And most turbos are no better than 75%. I guess you could drive a turbo to extremes and hit below 50% but that temp would be insane and do would the shaft rpms.

I was just playing with a normal flow requirement keeping things equal.
 
I recall a while back,correct me if i;m wring,it was pertaining to your turbos,loosing boost psi,did you ever get the issue resolved,or are you the type thats hesitant to go to the dealer like most are.
 
ZSHO said:
I recall a while back,correct me if i;m wring,it was pertaining to your turbos,loosing boost psi,did you ever get the issue resolved,or are you the type thats hesitant to go to the dealer like most are.

I never had any issue loosing pressure; I do have compressor seals that leak oil into the compressor housing however. Having large pressure differentials on the inlet and turbo center section (caused buy restrictive intakes or clogged filters along with oil pressure to high and poor oil return line design)is also problematic in oil passing by the compressor seal.

I am anti dealer as I have trust issues especially when I'm as talented or more talented at a task. I won't do surgery (as I'm not a doctor), but I'll wrench all day!
 
91hybrid said:
I am anti dealer as I have trust issues especially when I'm as talented or more talented at a task. I won't do surgery (as I'm not a doctor), but I'll wrench all day!

^I thought I was the only one with that mentality!

I believe we need to find another turbo that is similar to ours in size, albeit slightly larger, and adapt it to fit on our system. Some turbos that come to mind are the 14b from the 1G 1991-94 DSM's as that was an upgrade for the 2G 1995-99 DSM's small T25 turbo, which I think is similar to our stock turbos.
 
MDesign said:
91hybrid said:
I am anti dealer as I have trust issues especially when I'm as talented or more talented at a task. I won't do surgery (as I'm not a doctor), but I'll wrench all day!

^I thought I was the only one with that mentality!

I believe we need to find another turbo that is similar to ours in size, albeit slightly larger, and adapt it to fit on our system. Some turbos that come to mind are the 14b from the 1G 1991-94 DSM's as that was an upgrade for the 2G 1995-99 DSM's small T25 turbo, which I think is similar to our stock turbos.

There's an ATP that is a bolt-on.
 
BiGMaC said:
MDesign said:
91hybrid said:
I am anti dealer as I have trust issues especially when I'm as talented or more talented at a task. I won't do surgery (as I'm not a doctor), but I'll wrench all day!

^I thought I was the only one with that mentality!

I believe we need to find another turbo that is similar to ours in size, albeit slightly larger, and adapt it to fit on our system. Some turbos that come to mind are the 14b from the 1G 1991-94 DSM's as that was an upgrade for the 2G 1995-99 DSM's small T25 turbo, which I think is similar to our stock turbos.

There's an ATP that is a bolt-on.

I assumed it was upgraded components installed in the OEM turbos, not the case?

It would be fairly easy to mount a turbo to our manifolds, you would need a turbo with the same flange or an adapter plate which would open up doors. I believe it would just come down to changes in IC piping routing and room for a larger turbo.
 
MDesign said:
BiGMaC said:
MDesign said:
91hybrid said:
I am anti dealer as I have trust issues especially when I'm as talented or more talented at a task. I won't do surgery (as I'm not a doctor), but I'll wrench all day!

^I thought I was the only one with that mentality!

I believe we need to find another turbo that is similar to ours in size, albeit slightly larger, and adapt it to fit on our system. Some turbos that come to mind are the 14b from the 1G 1991-94 DSM's as that was an upgrade for the 2G 1995-99 DSM's small T25 turbo, which I think is similar to our stock turbos.
The ones I mention are larger with a high blade angle.... There is an ungraded OEM available through Mike B... He also has the ATPs I mentioned.

There's an ATP that is a bolt-on.

I assumed it was upgraded components installed in the OEM turbos, not the case?

It would be fairly easy to mount a turbo to our manifolds, you would need a turbo with the same flange or an adapter plate which would open up doors. I believe it would just come down to changes in IC piping routing and room for a larger turbo.
 
The atp's use a Garrett center section with bored and remachined stock compressor and exhaust housings to use +3 mm compressor turbine and I can't remember the size increase on the exhaust. Currently the only option available for something bigger.

But I was really was trying to point out that there are not huge gains by switching turbos if your not going to press 17 or less psi. 17+ there's efficency gains and cooler discharge temps to be had with the atp's.
 
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