what to do with my 3bar MAP ?
- Thread starter 68_GT
- Start date
No dis meant to Torrie or unleashed... I'm just thinkin' out loud about your dilemma and the most practical cost effective solution.
You've already got an LMS tune, so they will likely adjust it for free. I notice you're running stage 3 from your signature and you state you don't plan meth, so I assume your not trying for 600 WHP.
These "stages" are no longer offered by LMS and likely are better thought of as "versions" that occurred during continued development of the current tune. bpd is spot on, the 3bar's use is allowing/getting the most from high boost. Most with experience in stock turbos will tell you that 16-17psi boost is about the most you can expect from OEM turbos.
Dan (the tuner) at LMS does adjust tunes for increased boost and the 3bar is then of use. I do know that DJE624 has a LMS 4+ tune (equivalent of the LMS tune now offered) that allows his boost to go 15+.
So you likely could use the 3bar to increase performance significantly without spending any more money.
You've already got an LMS tune, so they will likely adjust it for free. I notice you're running stage 3 from your signature and you state you don't plan meth, so I assume your not trying for 600 WHP.
These "stages" are no longer offered by LMS and likely are better thought of as "versions" that occurred during continued development of the current tune. bpd is spot on, the 3bar's use is allowing/getting the most from high boost. Most with experience in stock turbos will tell you that 16-17psi boost is about the most you can expect from OEM turbos.
Dan (the tuner) at LMS does adjust tunes for increased boost and the 3bar is then of use. I do know that DJE624 has a LMS 4+ tune (equivalent of the LMS tune now offered) that allows his boost to go 15+.
So you likely could use the 3bar to increase performance significantly without spending any more money.
mjlkwolfe@gmail.com
New member
Question All
A 3 bar map sensor is capable of measuring pressures up to 45psi
Why would anyone need it for applications below 20 psi
Is the stock sensor a 2 bar unit?
If so it is good for 30psi?
If the stock unit is a 1 bar unit then 15 psi would be max measurable pressure.
Who out there has the true specs on these parts & others like the injectors, HP pumps etc.
Would sure like to know
Then it would be easy to calculate max boost pressures, hp available with stock parts etc
A 3 bar map sensor is capable of measuring pressures up to 45psi
Why would anyone need it for applications below 20 psi
Is the stock sensor a 2 bar unit?
If so it is good for 30psi?
If the stock unit is a 1 bar unit then 15 psi would be max measurable pressure.
Who out there has the true specs on these parts & others like the injectors, HP pumps etc.
Would sure like to know
Then it would be easy to calculate max boost pressures, hp available with stock parts etc
crash712us
New member
Good questions, but as to MAP sensor they must be including atmospheric pressure in the labeling of these sensors. So my assumption is a 1bar sensor is only capable of reading atmospheric pressure, a 2bar sensor is capable of reading 2 atmosphere of pressure and so on.
mjlkwolfe@gmail.com said:
Best I can answer.. in order:
•3bar allows finer tuning and let's the ECU deal with high boost pressures optimally. The pressures quoted are correct as I understand it, but it's a matter of the input to the ECU and how it deals with the different inputs.
•Why? ...Don't know... a FORD secret of ECU programming known to the qualified tuners.
•The OEM MAP on the SHO is a 2bar sensor. Tuners can modify the programming to take advantage of the control and higher than OEM boost.
*30 psi?... your stock turbos can't produce more than about 17psi OEM and in stock tune probably never get above 12-14 depending. I doubt if the ATP larger ones get too much more, performance seems to be due to more air at slightly higher pressures... never seen it reported by the dedicated data loggers on the sight so I'm ignorant. Hopefully a few of them will chime in. I'd like to here crash's opinion.
•True specs are available from the manufacturer of the OEM turbos... I know it's somewhere here... I once studied it and just can't remember the manufacturer (sorry).. I was just checking for safety parameters... I do remember that they should be fine tuned for increased boost and 4DR has improved impellers available to rebuild them and increase performance. I hope he'll set us straight on the performance of these.
• Good point on predicting gains! Useful. Still there's a lot of real world variables per vehicle and weather at any given time. My SHO, and most i've discussed it with, get a stock dyno about 285-295 WHP. Tuning seems to add 40-70WHP to a stock 3.5 EB (only changes being 1 heat range cooler plugs and T-stat).
My 2 cents.. Hope you can find the info. An engineer's viewpoint would be super!
Needmoreboost
New member
Does LMS do customing tuning as part of their package?
bpd1151
Active member
ATP +2 upgrades are capable of efficiently running at 30psi
Check their site for more tech info.
Stock turbos can go to around 19psi, as both Darreli & FirstSHO did so, prior to upgrading their turbos.
I still don't think the stock internals, or more so the tranny, can handle the ATP's in their true potential.
I believe even 4DR "only" went to around 25psi on his ATP's.
Meh..... back to topic.
Stock MAP is a 2bar. Max psi with it, in the EB platform is 14.2 from what I was told.
In closing, welcome aboard Wolfe! :hi:
You'd be pleasantly surprised at how many "vintage" members we have here.
Take a moment to create an intro thread when time permits.
The "other" Mike :beer:
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Check their site for more tech info.
Stock turbos can go to around 19psi, as both Darreli & FirstSHO did so, prior to upgrading their turbos.
I still don't think the stock internals, or more so the tranny, can handle the ATP's in their true potential.
I believe even 4DR "only" went to around 25psi on his ATP's.
Meh..... back to topic.
Stock MAP is a 2bar. Max psi with it, in the EB platform is 14.2 from what I was told.
In closing, welcome aboard Wolfe! :hi:
You'd be pleasantly surprised at how many "vintage" members we have here.
Take a moment to create an intro thread when time permits.
The "other" Mike :beer:
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
crash712us
New member
It's not factory turbo can't produce 30psi, it's being able to do it efficiently. 30psi of super hot air won't give you any performance. However my race tune on my stock turbo's does have brief peaks up to 22psi but mostly sustained pressures of 15-17psi. But it's not all about psi it's about volume of air cfms. You can go buy a cheap 5hp 60 gal air compressor at home depot, and it will do much of want the average guy needs. And they market by HP and psi not by cfm's and how many cfm's it can sustain at @ 90psi. What would help most of us understanding the differences between our turbos and the 2 options available is seeing the maps of each and the amounts air they move and pressures seen at certain impeller rpms. You see are turbos at 30psi are turning 250k while another modified turbo at 30psi is turning 175k. Just so hypothetical examples I am not certain of actual rpms although I believe I've read at factory levels are turbo are turning 200k
bpd1151
Active member
I know it's been long overdue, & quite some time has passed since that vendor made mention of it's offering.....
But last convo I had with them, that product offering was still being worked on.
So contrary to various posts about it being "scrapped" or "dead" truth is...... those people don't know that for a fact.
However, it goes w/o saying that it's not currently available either.....
Therefore, you and others would be best served by drawing your own conclusions, or placing your own inquiries, just as any of you would if inquiring of other vendors and what products, or product potential is in the proverbial pipeline.
To arbitrarily state, w/o knowing definitively a product has been shelved, is irresponsible at best.
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But last convo I had with them, that product offering was still being worked on.
So contrary to various posts about it being "scrapped" or "dead" truth is...... those people don't know that for a fact.
However, it goes w/o saying that it's not currently available either.....
Therefore, you and others would be best served by drawing your own conclusions, or placing your own inquiries, just as any of you would if inquiring of other vendors and what products, or product potential is in the proverbial pipeline.
To arbitrarily state, w/o knowing definitively a product has been shelved, is irresponsible at best.
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bpd1151 said:
you are correct in that, and I'm not saying anthing negative about LMS at all for the most part my 13 SHO runs great on their tune. I'm sure they're plenty busy researching and modding more commonly modded cars than a relative few EB vehicles, and even fewer SHO's. That being said I never wanted to bother with adding meth to my car. To me the time, trouble and cost is not worth the benefits and I know I could install a meth kit myself. I plumbed up a wet NX NOS kit on my 98 Stang with a 03 Cobra motor before no problem. But to quote LMS below there is no defenitive answer on when the XV1 will be available, and they have said we're working on it for months then say it will require meth. Not exactly the solution I personally was looking fo in search of a little more power. I just want my SHO to hold boost in the higher rpms. If it's just a fuel problem then I guess I'll wait for larger injectors to be invented, or 4DHtrd to invent a fuel system that works with zero problems
I don't personally have time or knowledge to contribute to figuring all of the EB tunning issues out, but I can wrench with the the best of them. Give me a parts list and a knowledegable tuner and I'm set but meth is not a route I care about. I'd rather change my fuel pumps, injectors, adjust my tune and go. Then maybe I can use my 3 bar MAP !? All that being said I don't see how putting in my 3bar MAP and having LMS adjusting my tune for it would do anything, so I'm curious as to why the Unleased guys feel the need to run one ? Are their tunes higher boost (seems to be from what I read), if so they have to make more power right, that being said they must have figured something out to address the fuel delivery that LMS hasn't ? I understand custome loyalty but I'm not driving from Houston TX to LMS to get a dyno tune and I'm not down with leaving what should be free power (from a tune adjustment) on the table.
How do I confirm what tune I have in my '13 with the various LMS Stage tunes ? I thought Anthony told me I have a stage 3 and he said that was the equivelent of a stage 4 in the 2010-2012 models ? Myabe I'm leaving something on the table already but I have concerns about my FRP already due to occasional hesitations.
Unfortunately as to the release of XV1, it is going to require more ancillaries than originally thought. With the unique issues that have come to light with the cold weather, it has shown that we are at the limit of safe fuel delivery with our performance tunes already. Because of this, Xv1 will require methanol injection to utilize. We are working on other avenues for this to be able to be achieved without the use of methanol, but those are a long way off unfortunately. I understand the want and the frustration for the delay, but we would rather release XV-1 after its been complete and safe. One thing I am proud to say about our company is we will not just rush a tune out to the public without going over it with a fine tooth comb and test and retest to make sure it gets the most power out of the vehicle, yet still be 100% safe! It will require meth for the Explorer Sport, and the Taurus SHO and related vehicles (Flex, MKS, MKT). As for the F150, it is still in development, but as stated before, is only going to be released when perfect. I know it is frustrating, but please be patient. We just want to get everyone the best tune available, anything less would be a disservice to our customers.
Brandon
crash712us
New member
none what so ever.