Winter blend gas and E/85

[ecoboostsho]

Great to hear!  That would make it, what, 18% or so?  Hope this will bear out over an extended run   Open some more doors for the Gen 4.1 folks!

Looking into exact blend as on the e/85 pump it says no lower than 70% ethonal. Did confirm that a branded BP supplier 93 has 9 or 10% guaranteed all year. Was trying to make sure it stayed under 20%.

Car pulled real hard and I can't describe how much smoother it felt. Max KR at WOT from a few different speeds was .8 with a lift knock of 2. Much better than the last week where I was getting up to 3.5 at WOT and an outrageous 5.2 lift knock.

Be careful out there with this winter gas everyone. This is the time to monitor closely.

Rich

Do you monitor the learned octane ratio by chance? Has it changed?

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[SHOnUup]

I dont. Didn't think of it at the time. Shucks

Rich

 

[SHOnUup]

Bp doesn't make E-85 so ask him what the name is on the side of the truck that delivers it. Then we can dig up the msds for it

Stopped at same station where the guy was very informative last time and he wasn't in this time. Stake out time...lol.

In the 4 runs at the track yesterday I recorded no knock whatsoever! Guessing this is the fuel mixing better and car learning it.

On the ride home the wife was driving and scored a .8 lift knock. Wondering if this is something to do with letting off with all that torque built up because at the track letting off at 110 didn't get any lift knock?

Rich

 

[Larrylu]

I've been sticking with the same Gulf brand and station that showed me such an improvement in my KR readings a couple of months ago, and to my disappointment, this last tank is starting to show some low octane results. It started slowly but as I get deeper into this tankful, I'm up from a steady 2 to a 5.5. Maybe this sudden change can be attributed to winter gas and if so, I guess I'll have to run a 91 octane tune for the winter or experiment with mixing a couple gallons of E85 with my normal fill up. FWIW, I'm still not aware of the driving activity that produces my high reading. When I watch, full throttle or lift off do not produce a high reading. But in normal driving if I take my eyes off the gauge for a few minutes, a spike is captured. I'm going to see if I can get my KR gauge to give me an audible feedback on high readings.

 

[SHOnUup]

I've been sticking with the same Gulf brand and station that showed me such an improvement in my KR readings a couple of months ago, and to my disappointment, this last tank is starting to show some low octane results. It started slowly but as I get deeper into this tankful, I'm up from a steady 2 to a 5.5. Maybe this sudden change can be attributed to winter gas and if so, I guess I'll have to run a 91 octane tune for the winter. FWIW, I'm still not aware of the driving activity that produces my high reading. When I watch, full throttle or lift off do not produce a high reading. But in normal driving if I take my eyes off the gauge for a few minutes, a spike is captured. I'm going to see if I can get my KR gauge to give me an audible feedback on high readings.

I was noticing same thing Larry. My WOT pulls would show more than normal but not as bad medium throttle in normal conditions. My lift knock spiked as well.

Also seeing that the car needs to be fully warmed up to not register knock on these cold mornings. Noticing a few extra minutes does a world of difference here.

Big thanks to the GURUS in the Torque PID'S thread for making this a posibility. Probably the best investment made for the car yet is the ability to monitor this stuff.

Rich

 

[SHOdded]

Capturing any fuel trim data yet?  Though Torque's 1/10 of a second resolution may not be sufficient to capture the cause of the spike, hoping

 

[SHOnUup]

My

LTFT1--LTFT2 --conditions
13.3---8.6-----idle
17.2---15.8----50 mph
15.6---13.3----80 mph
12.5---10.9----wot

Rich

 

[SHOdded]

Bank 1 is definitely running leaner, much more so at idle.  Is that normal?  Also the numbers are much higher than on my naturally aspirated Edge, which tends to run maximum 2-4% LTFT.  Interested in seeing your numbers next time it is just pump gas (no blend).

 

[SHOnUup]

That's the 2 gallon blend...that idle was cold start but warmed up...will do a check after warmed up and driven

Rich

 

[SHOnUup]

10.9 and 6.2 at idle in park

Rich

 

[SHOnUup]

While coasting 9.4 and 3.9

Rich

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Bank 1 is definitely running leaner, much more so at idle.  Is that normal?  Also the numbers are much higher than on my naturally aspirated Edge, which tends to run maximum 2-4% LTFT.  Interested in seeing your numbers next time it is just pump gas (no blend).

My bank one also runs similarly leaner stock, stock+e, and tuned so I don't think there's an issue

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Without knowing baseline straight gas numbers its really hard to tell how much extra enrichment is happening. What are your short terms doing? Are they close to zero?

No worries of a cel as that is allegedly tripped at +- 25%

Mine was well into the 30's at e55, no CEL or dtc's set.

My fuel tables seem to be completely different so the only thing I really have to compare is stock behavior.

 

[Larrylu]

My

LTFT1--LTFT2 --conditions
13.3---8.6-----idle
17.2---15.8----50 mph
15.6---13.3----80 mph
12.5---10.9----wot

Rich

Thanks for recording this Rich. Considering your custom blend fuel, I expected your LTFT to be higher than mine. Glad to see your left and right banks differing by a similar amount to mine also. I'm going to document my readings at the same speed points you chose so we can compare more accurately. Thanks again for checking this!

 

[SHOnUup]

Thx guys...maybe some non mixed results from Larry can help us here. I would try a tank of winter blend to see the difference if the knock return wasn't so bad.

Found out the distributors name, Coorigan, of the e/85 at BP here.  Guy said he would know the brand next time for me.

Rich

 

[Larrylu]

Some observations from last night

LTFT1-------LTFT2-------Conditions

3.9-----------2.7----------idle

8.9-----------6.5----------50mph

8.9-----------6.5----------70mph

0----------    -3.5---------high vac/throttle lift off

No WOT test

Readings decrease under moderate acceleration

My gut is telling me to look for a small vacuum leak. I'm almost positive these LTFT readings are creeping up because my recollection is that when I started with Torque a long time ago, that they were up and down both sides of zero by 1 or 2 points. Not sure though....my memory could be playing tricks on me!
On the winter fuel issue next tank I'll try Mobil 93 and see what my KR looks like with that brand.

 

[SHOnUup]

Makes me feel like I'm living up to my name comparing readings Larry, a bit "rich"....thanks for the data

Rich

 

[ecoboostsho]

Some observations from last night

LTFT1-------LTFT2-------Conditions

3.9-----------2.7----------idle

8.9-----------6.5----------50mph

8.9-----------6.5----------70mph

0----------    -3.5---------high vac/throttle lift off

No WOT test

Readings decrease under moderate acceleration

My gut is telling me to look for a small vacuum leak. I'm almost positive these LTFT readings are creeping up because my recollection is that when I started with Torque a long time ago, that they were up and down both sides of zero by 1 or 2 points. Not sure though....my memory could be playing tricks on me!
On the winter fuel issue next tank I'll try Mobil 93 and see what my KR looks like with that brand.

Larry my trims are similar to yours. I do not believe you have a vacuum leak. The only time I've been around zero for my trims is stock. I believe The car is compensating for the higher fuel requirement of being tuned...

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[Larrylu]

Some observations from last night

LTFT1-------LTFT2-------Conditions

3.9-----------2.7----------idle

8.9-----------6.5----------50mph

8.9-----------6.5----------70mph

0----------    -3.5---------high vac/throttle lift off

No WOT test

Readings decrease under moderate acceleration

My gut is telling me to look for a small vacuum leak. I'm almost positive these LTFT readings are creeping up because my recollection is that when I started with Torque a long time ago, that they were up and down both sides of zero by 1 or 2 points. Not sure though....my memory could be playing tricks on me!
On the winter fuel issue next tank I'll try Mobil 93 and see what my KR looks like with that brand.

Larry my trims are similar to yours. I do not believe you have a vacuum leak. The only time I've been around zero for my trims is stock. I believe The car is compensating for the higher fuel requirement of being tuned...

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That's some good news!  A much more pleasant theory than mine. Thank you for that info.

 

[SHOdded]

So fuel trims are still being calculated off the stock baseline?  That would indeed make sense :thumb: