Winter blend gas and E/85

I don't know for sure on this car but with my GTP fuel trims were calculated based on tables for expected airflow readings among other variables. That car was MAF based and the Taurus is MAP but the principle is the same. We would have to tweak the tables to get the values back to zero. That was important on the GTP because the car would use one of the long term trim cells at WOT and if it was negative it would subtract fuel. Thankfully the Taurus has a wideband to measure the air fuel ratio so the car just adjusts the trims as it needs to...no real reason on this car to have them at zero that I can see. Unless you go beyond what the car can correct for and/or the fuel pumps can keep up with...then bad things can happen. Again though without knowing how all the tables interact and if the tuners are changing any of them I can't be sure. That said I don't worry about trims unless they are waaay out there. I will be interested to see how the guys running ethanol mixes do in really cold weather. The air is denser and requires more fuel...as long as the pump keeps up I guess we are good!

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I'm running the slight mix (16-18%) in 34* - 38* in the morning here. No significant changes in the LTFT, AFR, or FRP...yet. Car is running smoother and pulls harder than it has since we purchased. Quite impressed with what this small dose has done. KR readings are near impossible to come by. An occasional lift reading of .8 or 1 that I still haven't visually caught.

Rich

 
I am definitely going to have to at least try this. I'm impressed with your results. I just wish I didn't have to go to two different gas stations to fill up. I can only get 93 at BP and the stations In use don't have E85.

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ecoboostsho said:
I am definitely going to have to at least try this. I'm impressed with your results. I just wish I didn't have to go to two different gas stations to fill up. I can only get 93 at BP and the stations In use don't have E85.

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I searched around my area and found a BP that supplies both. It is 10 miles away, but I use it as an excuse to go for a cruise now.

Remember to ask the manager at BP, or at least the one who orders the fuel (they seem to be way more informative ) if they are a "branded" fuel supplier. If not branded their fuel can be very inconsistent allowing them to purchase from multiple sources.

2 gallon mix I've been using makes the calculation real easy. Each 1/4 tank is a half gallon of e/85.

Rich
 
ecoboostsho said:
Thanks. I will have to keep my eyes peeled!

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My wife googled BP station with e/85...as I to was on the look out...maybe my frustrating texts to her after pulling into many BP's helped this along^-^

Rich

 
I can tell you all how supply and distribution works. I am an operator at a distribution terminal which supplies Shell gasoline.
And using MSDS for quality control is ridiculous. At the least you need what's called a C of A, or certificate of analysis. But even that is potentially useless. Using a C of A to gauge the quality of ethanol in your gas tank would be like using the nutrition information on the side of a cereal box as results for blood work.

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IHeartGroceries said:
I can tell you all how supply and distribution works. I am an operator at a distribution terminal which supplies Shell gasoline.
And using MSDS for quality control is ridiculous. At the least you need what's called a C of A, or certificate of analysis. But even that is potentially useless. Using a C of A to gauge the quality of ethanol in your gas tank would be like using the nutrition information on the side of a cereal box as results for blood work.

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Well, that was helpful.....

instead if telling us how ridiculous we are, why don't you tell us why these things aren't accurate in calculating our blends.

Furthermore, Speedways msds sheets have been spot on at least with regard to quantity.

As far as quality, who knows, all I know is the car loves ot stock or otherwise.
 
I gave up offering my two cents! It was going ignored, as it always does on Web forums, because more often than not people get their feelings hurt when they learn gas is gas.

I work in supply and distribution. My insight beyond those areas is far more limited. I'm no chemical engineer.

I haven't paid close attention to how you are calculating your blends.
How does an MSDS provide any insight as to how to mix your blends?

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IHeartGroceries said:
I gave up offering my two cents! It was going ignored, as it always does on Web forums, because more of then than not people get their feelings hurt when they learn gas is gas.

I haven't paid close attention to how you are calculating your blends.
How does an MSDS provide any insight as to how to mix your blends?

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We love info here. Regardless if it falls in line with our assumptions or info we already have.

Ignoring was not the case as I eagerly await the suggested info you could provide still.

Any light shedding on the "branded" label as the guy stated it requires more testing and not just filling up from the cheapest distributor at the time and calling it so n so's gas.

Rich
 
IHeartGroceries said:
I gave up offering my two cents! It was going ignored, as it always does on Web forums, because more often than not people get their feelings hurt when they learn gas is gas.

I work in supply and distribution. My insight beyond those areas is far more limited. I'm no chemical engineer.

I haven't paid close attention to how you are calculating your blends.
How does an MSDS provide any insight as to how to mix your blends?

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It clearly states the ratio of E to straight gas for both summer and winter blends.

For Speedway the state 85/15 for summer and 75/15 for winter.
 
IHeartGroceries said:
I gave up offering my two cents! It was going ignored, as it always does on Web forums, because more often than not people get their feelings hurt when they learn gas is gas.

I work in supply and distribution. My insight beyond those areas is far more limited. I'm no chemical engineer.

I haven't paid close attention to how you are calculating your blends.
How does an MSDS provide any insight as to how to mix your blends?

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Yup, I'd love some insight as I have used nothing but Shell for years.

I will say that I quit having fuel injection issues with all of my vehicles since I did. (Others swear the same)

My DSMs wouldn't worth a **** on BP gas in the early 90's
 
IHeartGroceries said:
But that is a static figure, isn't it? Or are you just referring to a time table for their blend periods?

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Correct, and it also doesn't tell me when the switch happens specifically, just the summer and winter designation.

Usually the only way I can tell is when my fuel trims drop.
 
There are testers for ethanol content, I believe, not very cheap, but affordable for occasional use.  No similar kits for octane evaluation though.  4DR I think offers the ethanol kits on his site?

IHG, any insight you provide is helpful.  We just need to figure out how to integrate it with our end-user experience and technical/research data available out there, public or not.  Tough job :)
 
83d6ab5cc981dc20019655114114a7ed.jpg

Think those are the highest power #'s yet recorded on torque. Zero knock also!!!

Rich

 
SHOnUup said:
83d6ab5cc981dc20019655114114a7ed.jpg

Think those are the highest power #'s yet recorded on torque. Zero knock also!!!

Rich
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That's on custom blend E16 right?  Great numbers and a nice gauge layout. I've now located my nearest E85 source. Gulf station about 2 miles from the house. I'll try adding 2 gal of E85 on my next fill up and see what happens to my KR, LTFTs, FRPs and gas mileage. It's either that or run a 91 octane, 3BAR version of 4+. I really like 4X and I hate to switch it out in the winter but I just can't close my eyes to seeing KR spikes between 4 and 5 even if it's not at WOT. Just feels like I'm running too close to the edge for comfort.
 
Thx Larry. 16-18% as I'm still in search for the supplier of the e/85. I guess now, have read differing opinions now, that some e/85 may take a "winter blend" mix hit also(regional mixes). 2 gallon per tank mix really makes it easy to figure out the required amount.

That high KR was what I could not deal with either. First thought my car was hurt before confirming the winter gas arrival. Whew!!!

Really hope the guys not monitoring knock out there see this info and adjust accordingly. 93 tune + winter blend + not fully warming up car = a considerable amount of knock I can assume pretty confidently.

Rich

 
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