Winter blend gas and E/85
- Thread starter SHOnUup
- Start date
Dave I have stumbled onto almost identical symptoms and I've decided to investigate the O2 sensor. In my case it happens much earlier in the warmup cycle. Under very cold conditions (20 degrees in the garage and single digit ambient), I fired the car up and slowly eased on down the road. I had zeroed out the KR gauge and at 30 mph, in 4th gear with no load, and steady speed. I had not gone 1/4 mile and happened to glance at the KR and caught it suddenly sweep from 0 to 7. It stayed there maybe a second or so and eased back down to 0 and stayed there. A couple of days ago when I was running my stock tune the exact same thing happened at almost the same spot in the road. The only difference is that stock my spike was 3.8. I'm just guessing but could the could this occur when the switch is made from open to closed? Another thing that gives me this idea is that if I'm using some throttle I may be forcing a switch to open and I've never had a high KR when flexing any muscle.ecoboostsho said:
ecoboostsho
New member
Larry - It's worth looking at. Torque actually has a built in gauge that will tell you when it is open or closed loop. The KR I get is almost exactly as you describe and occurs right BEFORE it goes in to closed loop (i.e. still in open loop) It starts occurring at a temp of about 145 degrees but only in 6th with a very small amount of throttle- it goes in to closed loop around 158/160. E-85 blend helps with the spike but I've actually figured out if I shift manually and stay out of 6th gear and keep the RPM's between about 2 and 3K (higher is fine but the car is warming up so I don't want to rev it out) then it won't occur. Once the car is at 160 I just pop it in D and move along. Once the car is in closed loop it is fine. I still plan on logging and see if I can understand what is going on. I'm not sure if there is a temperature timing adder just in open loop that causes the timing to advance to a point where it just knocks too easy. I will be logging throttle %, Coolant Temp, Knock, Timing, RPM, open/closed loop, AFR, and possibly engine load. If I can recreate it I can at least see what kind of timing it is calling for and go from there...
ecoboostsho
New member
Further - when the car is in open loop it isn't using the O2 sensor (at least that is how I understand it). The car uses closed loop for almost every other case including WOT (which is different than my previous car but this car has a wideband so it can carefully monitor the air/fuel ratio). So...I don't know that the O2 sensor is to blame because if it was faulty then this condition should be showing up in Closed Loop. I still believe that is a condition that exists based on the open loop table is triggering this - but it also may be something is wrong with the car that is ultimately the issue if no-one but Larry and I are experiencing this.
I too noticed an improvement when using the "grade assist" which kept it out of 6th. This occurring in 4th gear is interesting to me. To actually see it happen as I'm driving and to know that this is not a lugging KR situation makes me feel like I'm getting closer to figuring it out. Is the closed/open loop gauge a built in or is it a custom PID.
IHeartGroceries
New member
If you're talking about the difference between the two, the narrowband downstream of the cat(s) is placed to monitor catalytic efficiency. The upstream wideband is purposed to feedback data to the ECU for AFR logic and calculation.
There are plenty of WB equipped engines out there which still rely on open loop control during cold operarion AND high engine load. Most, in fact. WB just allows for much more acute adjustments to fueling, for the sake of emissions and efficiency.
There are plenty of WB equipped engines out there which still rely on open loop control during cold operarion AND high engine load. Most, in fact. WB just allows for much more acute adjustments to fueling, for the sake of emissions and efficiency.
IHeartGroceries
New member
Guess the O2S warms pretty quickly. XD
Changes in Gasoline Manual (2009) published by EthanolRFA.com discusses modern formulations
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/rfa-association-site/ChangesinGasolineManualIV-UpdatedLogo.pdf?nocdn=1
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/rfa-association-site/ChangesinGasolineManualIV-UpdatedLogo.pdf?nocdn=1
staged_sho
New member
Has anyone mentioned this app for Android users?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kennethnissel.e85&hl=en
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kennethnissel.e85&hl=en
ecoboostsho
New member
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but it is what I use every fill up. Works great! On the winter blend topic I can definitely tell it's here...I see a lot more part throttle knock.
Yes. Will you be using a laptop with the x4?f8tlSHO said:
The x4 can only log so much before it has loss of data resolution.
If you have an old android phone or tablet, that is another option.
I use torque for gauges but x4 for data logging.
Rear fuel pressure and knock are what you are looking for in the x4
If you don't have a laptop to use I have an 11 pid file for handheld only use.
Fyi, KR in torque and knock on the x4 aren't the same.
KR is basically the steps taken to prevent knock and knock on the x4 is actual knock.
You can see KR activity in Torques but see no actual knock on the x4
On the x4 knock pid a negative number indicates a happy ecu, a positive is actual knock.
KR is basically the steps taken to prevent knock and knock on the x4 is actual knock.
You can see KR activity in Torques but see no actual knock on the x4
On the x4 knock pid a negative number indicates a happy ecu, a positive is actual knock.