93 Octane and 100% Meth, is it feasible? Or am I gonna be knock limited?
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11’s on pump gas and meth..?
- Thread starter StealBlueSHO
- Start date
IMO, After MANY logging sessions at the track, it is the launch that is the limit. Get your temps down and spark high on launch and get that 60ft near or at 1.7 and you should crack it.
the Problem will be now that were late season tracks are cold .. traction with 21+ spark on launch is going to be seriously tough.
the Problem will be now that were late season tracks are cold .. traction with 21+ spark on launch is going to be seriously tough.
I am going to be battling winter gas too... might need to throw some E85 in it to stabilize the octane...
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SHOdded said:
hmmm.. Ok. I should be happy with very low 12's on pump gas with meth... I don't want to ask Brad for a race fuel tune...
StealBlueSho said:
Be it my whacky opinion, but you are on Brads meth tune. I have been wondering .. since the tune is not keying off of STFT, and seems to be more knock related what happens if you drop in 1:7 gallons of e85 : 97-octane ..
maybe im crazy .. but would not the drop of knock with 98 octcane\e11 help boost launch spark?
Agentlongwood
New member
If the issue is traction why not get a set of wheels and drag radials. If you just want to crack 11s at the track I would imagine that would be a pretty substantial help.
A little tire spin wouldn't be bad if it didn't cause the car to go into a sh!t fit. My car gets very cranky if it detects traction loss and that's with the traction control turned off as much as I can without having a PP car.
I wonder if there's any way to get the car to power through the spin?
I will add that my best 60' came with a cold car and driving it straight to the line with as little throttle and time spent as possible. I don't think the PTU likes any heat.
Speaking of which...wonder if a total driveline fluid swap would help your endeavor? Maybe it's just me, but I swear my car launched better when I had fresh fluids.
I wonder if there's any way to get the car to power through the spin?
I will add that my best 60' came with a cold car and driving it straight to the line with as little throttle and time spent as possible. I don't think the PTU likes any heat.
Speaking of which...wonder if a total driveline fluid swap would help your endeavor? Maybe it's just me, but I swear my car launched better when I had fresh fluids.
Agentlongwood
New member
bpd1151 said:
Whoa, that's weird. What made it infective? Did the extra grip cause new problems or something?
Agentlongwood said:
'Good' Dragradials require heating them up to get sticky. other than pulling the AWD fuse you cannot do burnouts (real burnouts) with the front tires. so they stay cold and chatter worse than a cold summer tire.
you best best for moding wheels is lightweight rims up front and super low tread life summer shoes.
Agentlongwood
New member
Ah, ok that makes sense. Thanks for filling me in. I was puzzled on how DRs would end up failing to help, lol.
SHOdded said:
I use Mobile 1 for oil, changed out over frequently... 1500 - 3000 miles depending on how much datalogging/track time I do. Motorcraft LV in the transmission, I have adopted a similar methodology for my transmission fluid. At this point I am doing a 5qt drain and fill when I do a motor oil change. Being as I don't have a the additional transmission cooler the heat from the track will most likely be breaking down the trans fluid at a much higher rate. So after 6K - 12K miles the fluid will have been completely replaced. PTU And RDU fluids are less frequent being as they are harder to replace and I take it ford to have them swapped. So it would be OEM fluids for those. At the moment those are replaced at 20K intervals unless I do a ton of track time which then I will swap them out sooner.
Keep in mind, this car sits most of the time in the garage. So when I say 1500 miles that maybe SEVERAL months so the over all cost is not high.
TopherSho said:
Not sure what you mean here? Yes, my widebands are in control of how much fuel is delivered while I am spraying meth. So when I spray meth, the WB's pick up the extra fueling which then cause the ECU to pull fuel thus my STFT's show fueling being pulled. Brad did attempt to tune the speed density tables on my tune but that lead to some interesting results. It clean the fuel trims up a lot, but it also caused other stuff to happen...
To be clear, I am not having knock issues. That 12.35 run I had an extremely small amount of KR towards the end of the run. Literally +1 KR for a split second which then the knock sensor started adding timing back. Its almost not enough to even talk about.
Brad can answer this better than I can, but I believe he has a global limiter on the amount of spark that can be added to my tube. I want to say it tops out at 28 degrees. How fast it adds spark can be adjusted and I am unsure if that is adjusted at the moment. Again Brad can answer this...
Helping with launch? I am not getting any KR on launch, and I almost NEVER have KR.. out of 6 runs at the track hot lapping most of them, I only had one moment of KR on the last run, again, it was not much at all...
The reason I am asking about race gas is vs pump gas getting into the 11's is the ability to turn up the tune the more. I am not knock limited at the moment on Brads tune. My car has yet to be knock limited on any tune but more fuel limited. With the meth this is mitigated by quite a bit as the purpose of meth is really to increase the effective octane with its cooling properties. I have talked a bit with Julio and his theory is that you tune your meth to prevent knock and the cooling is an added benefit.
I just see all the cars that have put down 11's are using race gas, and I am curious is 93 octane with meth has enough effective octane to crank up our cars to get to 11's...
J-Will said:
No, no response. I don't think anyone is running it.
Agentlongwood said:
The track prep at capital raceway is leaps and bounds better than the track prep at Sumerduck.. mind you... Sumerduck is a mom and pop shop.. so they probably don't want to spend on the money on VHT to keep the track consistently tacky. My traction issues were more or less eliminated at Capital Raceway.. I had a really good phone call with Irondoor9 on this forum who called to discussed SCT datalogging without a laptop. He also has two SHO's, one with Continentals and one with BFgoodrich Comp 2's. He said that the BFgoodrich longitudinal traction at the track is lacking but the latitudinal traction is really good. IE.. my tires are not optimal for straight line digs but much better in the twisties which I 100% agree with.
Brad and I discussed that my car is pushing past the limits of the tires I have. Not an issue, just is what it is. I am looking to purchase some 18 inch wheels with stickier tires.. maybe continentals or nittos..
@SBS,
Oh I get you don't have knock with/without meth, that's where my idea came from. Brad In his explanation to told me the knock system is pretty ware (even if it is passive) of where the octane ''is'' .. which is why we don't see 'real' knock until were like +3kr or more.. My thought is if the BASE fuel octane goes up pre-meth spray would the car add spark above normal pre-spray in the 1st 1500ms of launch?
my spray comes on hard at about 7 pounds, but that's part way through my the 60ft .. my spark as you have seen is pretty low but 'normal' as the knock sensors are sensing high temp, and low ocatane minus the spray.
I wonder if you car which is more aggressive than mine would add 2 or 3 degrees of spark on launch because the base fuel would be 98 octane versus 92 ..
Oh I get you don't have knock with/without meth, that's where my idea came from. Brad In his explanation to told me the knock system is pretty ware (even if it is passive) of where the octane ''is'' .. which is why we don't see 'real' knock until were like +3kr or more.. My thought is if the BASE fuel octane goes up pre-meth spray would the car add spark above normal pre-spray in the 1st 1500ms of launch?
my spray comes on hard at about 7 pounds, but that's part way through my the 60ft .. my spark as you have seen is pretty low but 'normal' as the knock sensors are sensing high temp, and low ocatane minus the spray.
I wonder if you car which is more aggressive than mine would add 2 or 3 degrees of spark on launch because the base fuel would be 98 octane versus 92 ..