explorergotoluvit
New member
install mine today ill let you all know how is works out for me
160* T-stat Installed..
- Thread starter Tomc612
- Start date
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DJE624
Guest
explorergotoluvit said:
Have fun! Hope it works out good for you!
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DJE624
Guest
It's about the engine staying or returning to a warm up mode. That's the gist of it. Tom knows better but at this point we know we don't have to worry about it using 170 or 160 stats in our Ecos.
Open loop (i.e. startup) is unmanaged, fuel-rich, polluting conditions. Closed loop (i.e. running) is managed, fuel-lean, emissions-friendly conditions. Based on sensor feedback coming in within normal parameters. O2 sensor feedback is one of the slower ones. If the O2 sensor were to heat up instantly, you could have practically no open loop condition after startup, except for WOT and failsafe. Now, if you drive around with a lot of variable input to the throttle, the car will tend towards safety and stay longer in open loop.
mjhpadi said:
It is a startup mode used by the ECU until sensors are working... just a command run rather than adjusted by feedback from sensors (hence the name). The O2 sensors SHOdded mentions for instance must be warm to function and once feedback begins the engine must reach operating temps for full feedback to the ECU. It is at least rumored that newer models are electrically heated and so should eliminate the "open loop" ECU operation(no feedback from engine sensors used to modify) for practical purposes and basically always be operating closed loop (receiving feedback from sensors and adjusting)... Thanks DAve, but I'm not a real expert here.
Hope this helps... or just google "open loop auto": or something like that.
If the ECT is less than 172 degrees for 300 seconds it will throw the PO128 code.
Pg 123
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm1202.pdf
Pg 123
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm1202.pdf
FoMoCoSHO said:
Thanks for posting the url to this PDF... captured it for future use ;D
I read on to page 124.... where is says, "For cases where the engine is not producing sufficient heat, a timer is used to track time at idle or low load conditions (e.g. decels). If the ratio of time at idle/low load versus total engine run time exceeds 50% at the time the fault determination is made, the thermostat diagnostic does not make a fault determination for that driving cycle, i.e. "no-call"."... does that mean that if idle and cruise time are > 50% of total runtime a code won't be thrown... if so it would be an easily fulfilled criteria.
Thoughts on this?
Also of note is where it says the DTC may not be thrown if ambient temp is below 50 degrees.
Livernois Motorsports
New member
TYPICAL MALFUNCTION THRESHOLD
Engine Coolant Temperature < 172 °F (for a typical 192 °F thermostat)
Since these don't have a 192* this generic figure is inaccurate. These cars won't do this unless it's well below 160*
Engine Coolant Temperature < 172 °F (for a typical 192 °F thermostat)
Since these don't have a 192* this generic figure is inaccurate. These cars won't do this unless it's well below 160*
And then there's this which leads to more questions...
"Enhanced Thermostat Monitor
The enhanced thermostat monitor helps to reduce the time it takes to identify a thermostat concern. This monitor is executed once per drive
cycle during a cold start and has a run duration of 300 seconds.
During a cold start, when the thermostat should be closed, the enhanced thermostat monitor uses intake air temperature, engine speed, and
engine load to predict the engine coolant temperature. Once the predicted temperature has exceeded a target temperature for a length of
time, the actual engine coolant temperature is compared to its required threshold. This threshold is 11°C (20°F) below the thermostat
regulating temperature. If the engine coolant temperature exceeds this threshold, the thermostat is functioning correctly. If the engine coolant
temperature is too low, the thermostat may be stuck open and DTC P0128 sets."
So does this mean that this "threshold" is a preset value plugged into the ECM? Because it also refers to the "thermostat regulating temperature" specifically.
"Enhanced Thermostat Monitor
The enhanced thermostat monitor helps to reduce the time it takes to identify a thermostat concern. This monitor is executed once per drive
cycle during a cold start and has a run duration of 300 seconds.
During a cold start, when the thermostat should be closed, the enhanced thermostat monitor uses intake air temperature, engine speed, and
engine load to predict the engine coolant temperature. Once the predicted temperature has exceeded a target temperature for a length of
time, the actual engine coolant temperature is compared to its required threshold. This threshold is 11°C (20°F) below the thermostat
regulating temperature. If the engine coolant temperature exceeds this threshold, the thermostat is functioning correctly. If the engine coolant
temperature is too low, the thermostat may be stuck open and DTC P0128 sets."
So does this mean that this "threshold" is a preset value plugged into the ECM? Because it also refers to the "thermostat regulating temperature" specifically.
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DJE624
Guest
Sorry, I can't answer your questions FoMoCoSHO. But, I can tell you this. After running all three, stock 180, 170 and 160 (with each, their own tune). There is really no noticeable difference in start up cycle or in continued running between them. Of course this is just a "seat of the pants" experience.
Edit-It does run a little cooler with the 170 and then with the 160.
Edit-It does run a little cooler with the 170 and then with the 160.
Well like I've said before my belief is your temps will never be that low even with the 160.DJE624 said:
What is more troubling is that some of the emission readiness items specify two different minimum temps, 160 and 170.
I'm just trying to get you guys all the pertinent info on the off chance you throw a code, or a driveability issue arises.
I now have the OBD manuals for years 2010-2013, and there is a ton of data on how all the systems work and how to troubleshoot.
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DJE624
Guest
Understood. The T Stats will just open at a lower temperature. It's really how hard you're running that will determine the actual coolant temp. Luckily for me, we have no emissions testing in my county.