2010 SHO non-PP - Can it HPDE?

[Xceler8x]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking for quite awhile and learned a lot from this forum. Things like Livernois tunes are great (have one) and that I can't install an oil cooler on my car as I have the traffic sensing cruise control.

My question is I have a 2010 SHO non-PP car. It's loaded with luxury to the tune of 4400lbs. Can this boat handle sessions on a road course like VIR or Summit Point? I have a Livernoise tune (94 stage 4) and enjoy it. I just have my reservations about heat buildup in the ptu, brakes, etc. Since mine is a non-PP car it doesn't have the oil cooler, ptu cooler, etc that the PP cars would have. That concerns me from a long term reliability and session overheat stand point. I'd hate to spend cash on a track day at a road course and then have to pedal the car after 10 mins because it's over heated something.

Any advice, experience, or other you can provide? Has anyone tried an HPDE with our family bruiser cruisers?

 

[Vortech347]

I haven't ran mine yet, but I do HPDE often in my fox.  I've seen several 4 dr's that are stock or pretty close to it out on the track doing well.  The brakes on these cars are pretty decent, even the non-PP's.  Just take your time and stick to the HPDE 1 or 2 group.  If you've never ran with NASA before then you'll be in group 1 with an instructor anyways.  They will be able to give you a ton of insight on how the car and yourself are doing.  If you drag your brakes and early brake you will probably cook them quick.  If you use shorter and harder slow downs into the corner the brakes will last longer.  Sounds weird but its one thing I learned from going out there so much.

One important thing to remember after an HPDE day its strongly recommended you do an oil change and re-bleed your brakes. 

I plan to hit auto-x in the spring to get a feel for the car's lower speed quick motion type stuff then hit our track, Miller Motorsports Park (just renamed though for next year)

 

[SHOdded]

For road-coursing/auto-x'ing, at least in the 2010-12's (stock), it is highly recommended to at least upgrade the pads, if not pad/rotor sets (no drilled rotors).  Brake fluid flush & fill with a high performance fluid.  Flush & fill the PTU/RDU fluids, change out the trans fluid as well.  And then technique/process kicks in as described by Vortech above.

 

[Xceler8x]

For road-coursing/auto-x'ing, at least in the 2010-12's (stock), it is highly recommended to at least upgrade the pads, if not pad/rotor sets (no drilled rotors).  Brake fluid flush & fill with a high performance fluid.  Flush & fill the PTU/RDU fluids, change out the trans fluid as well.  And then technique/process kicks in as described by Vortech above.

By upgrade the pads/rotors are you refering to using a pad like Hawk Blues? As for rotors..would new stock sized blanks work or would you recommend and aftermarket rotor by Wilwood or equivalent?

As to the flush/fill, do you suggest that after the event or before so as to start with fresh fluids?

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Xceler8x]

I haven't ran mine yet, but I do HPDE often in my fox.  I've seen several 4 dr's that are stock or pretty close to it out on the track doing well.  The brakes on these cars are pretty decent, even the non-PP's.  Just take your time and stick to the HPDE 1 or 2 group.  If you've never ran with NASA before then you'll be in group 1 with an instructor anyways.  They will be able to give you a ton of insight on how the car and yourself are doing.  If you drag your brakes and early brake you will probably cook them quick.  If you use shorter and harder slow downs into the corner the brakes will last longer.  Sounds weird but its one thing I learned from going out there so much.

I should've mentioned my previous experience with HPDE's.

I've tracked a Mazdaspeed3 and two Miata's previously. I've worked my way up to group 3. I then transitioned to Lemons/Chump Car and ran 5 events in those series.

I do appreciate your advice on staying in the lower run groups to get more instruction. I'd like to get an instructors take on how the car is working and my skill at preserving it's resources (brakes, cooling, etc) while at speed.

Thanks for the tip on braking. I would've never thought braking harder for shorter durations would work better. I still have a lot to learn.

One important thing to remember after an HPDE day its strongly recommended you do an oil change and re-bleed your brakes. 

I plan to hit auto-x in the spring to get a feel for the car's lower speed quick motion type stuff then hit our track, Miller Motorsports Park (just renamed though for next year)

An oil change and brake bleed sound like good ideas. I know the turbos heat the oil quite a bit and without an oil cooler I'm sure even synthetic will break down. The brake bleed sounds like good advice so as to purge any cooked fluid as well. These are heavy cars with lots of power and that, in my mind, means brake punishment.

Thanks again for the response.

 

[SHOdded]

By upgrade the pads/rotors are you refering to using a pad like Hawk Blues? As for rotors..would new stock sized blanks work or would you recommend and aftermarket rotor by Wilwood or equivalent?

As to the flush/fill, do you suggest that after the event or before so as to start with fresh fluids?

Thanks for the suggestions!

If you are OK with swapping out pads before & after, then sure, you can get track only pads from Hawk, EBC, Porterfield, etc. that will work great.  But if not, get the pad that balances best between the DD style and auto-x style.  So they might be a little slow to warm up & bite, but once warmed up, they would have great bite.  EBC Yellowstuff or Hawk HP pads are in that category.  Again, braking short & hard is key to longevity.

At the very least, rotor replacements should be high-carbon rotors, such as ones you can find from AutoZone, or Stop Tech for example.  Drilled units are to be avoided because of the possibility of cracking under stress.  Slotted is fine, but blanks are best for performance.

Brake fluid flush BEFORE beginning the HPDE event season for sure.  Using a hi perf fluid from ATE/Brembo/Stop Tech etc should keep the system working better than OEM.  Check after every event.  OEM wasn't meant for auto-x

 

[Vortech347]

I haven't ran mine yet, but I do HPDE often in my fox.  I've seen several 4 dr's that are stock or pretty close to it out on the track doing well.  The brakes on these cars are pretty decent, even the non-PP's.  Just take your time and stick to the HPDE 1 or 2 group.  If you've never ran with NASA before then you'll be in group 1 with an instructor anyways.  They will be able to give you a ton of insight on how the car and yourself are doing.  If you drag your brakes and early brake you will probably cook them quick.  If you use shorter and harder slow downs into the corner the brakes will last longer.  Sounds weird but its one thing I learned from going out there so much.

I should've mentioned my previous experience with HPDE's.

I've tracked a Mazdaspeed3 and two Miata's previously. I've worked my way up to group 3. I then transitioned to Lemons/Chump Car and ran 5 events in those series.

I do appreciate your advice on staying in the lower run groups to get more instruction. I'd like to get an instructors take on how the car is working and my skill at preserving it's resources (brakes, cooling, etc) while at speed.

Thanks for the tip on braking. I would've never thought braking harder for shorter durations would work better. I still have a lot to learn.

One important thing to remember after an HPDE day its strongly recommended you do an oil change and re-bleed your brakes. 

I plan to hit auto-x in the spring to get a feel for the car's lower speed quick motion type stuff then hit our track, Miller Motorsports Park (just renamed though for next year)

An oil change and brake bleed sound like good ideas. I know the turbos heat the oil quite a bit and without an oil cooler I'm sure even synthetic will break down. The brake bleed sounds like good advice so as to purge any cooked fluid as well. These are heavy cars with lots of power and that, in my mind, means brake punishment.

Thanks again for the response.

You've got plenty of wheel time then!  You know what you're doing.  Just run in the 1-2 group so you've got more room to learn without being on the track with the over serious people.  Just be weary about doing aggressive pads if you plan it to be a street setup too.  I have a separate set of pads/rotors for track use than street. I had my Marauder out for a session once and it had TINY brakes compared to these SHO's and I didn't have to much of a problem.  Just made myself remember I was in a two ton beast with factory hardware.

 

[SHOnUup]

Highly suggest upgraded pads...when i took the land yacht (2011 SHO) I cooked a set of EBC red stuff pads and slotted rotors being my first time out. These cars get up to speed fast for 4400 lbs and then need to be stopped!!!

The experienced guys were swearing by blank rotors with either Hawk or CarboTech pads.

It was a blast and the car did well...from driving with the more experienced guys in more track worthy cars, the SHO was holding corners at the same speeds...when i entered correctly ^-^

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Vortech347]

Highly suggest upgraded pads...when i took the land yacht (2011 SHO) I cooked a set of EBC red stuff pads and slotted rotors being my first time out. These cars get up to speed fast for 4400 lbs and then need to be stopped!!!

The experienced guys were swearing by blank rotors with either Hawk or CarboTech pads.

It was a blast and the car did well...from driving with the more experienced guys in more track worthy cars, the SHO was holding corners at the same speeds...when i entered correctly ^-^

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I run Hawk HP+ and OE Blanks on my fox.  Horrible on the street, squeal like a freight train and coat the wheels black before I get out of the neighborhood.  So yea, track only. Carbotech's are FANTASTIC just get a bit pricey.  Slotted and cross drilled rotors are great bling.  But when put through hard use, will fail (cracks from the holes) or chew the pads up like what a cheese grater does.

 

[SHOnUup]

Here's my first time ever on a road course...well after my warmup session with the instructor.

Turn on CC for my little commentary and once the session starts you'll want no volume...this is the low quality video, but it has the CC.

https://youtu.be/8l6h8M8yxI0

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[SHOnUup]

High quality version....no CC, so you'll need to skip to 5:30 Mark for racing

https://youtu.be/1ACaFxqnByc

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[bpd1151]

Coming from 2010 Non-PP as myself, I would STRONGLY recommend you performing the auxiliary cooler add-ons that are found in/on the 2013+ PP equipped cars.

I was the 1st to retrofit them onto mine, & I'm incredibly confident in reporting not only have they proven extremely useful, but I'm positive they've saved my @ss for sure (thus far) on having to replace major components effected by the use of each auxiliary cooler.

The aforementioned advice provided by others, is sound too.

Check the "How-To" section(s) for my write ups.

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[Vortech347]

SHOnUup:  Fantastic video's!

 

[SHOnUup]

SHOnUup:  Fantastic video's!

Thanks...here's the finish of that session

https://youtu.be/LzeLhApArAs

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[Xceler8x]

Highly suggest upgraded pads...when i took the land yacht (2011 SHO) I cooked a set of EBC red stuff pads and slotted rotors being my first time out. These cars get up to speed fast for 4400 lbs and then need to be stopped!!!

The experienced guys were swearing by blank rotors with either Hawk or CarboTech pads.

It was a blast and the car did well...from driving with the more experienced guys in more track worthy cars, the SHO was holding corners at the same speeds...when i entered correctly ^-^

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That is really encouraging to hear. I'm not expecting the family bruiser to be able to hang with even mildly prepped cars but it would be fun to take it out and dice it up some. I've got an E30 that I'm prepping for a combo date car/HPDE track rat. I would still like to get the SHO out there to see what it will do.

When you tracked yours did you have any modifications like brakes or suspension?

Good to know about rotor blanks and CarboTechs. I've never been a fan of crossdrilled or slotted rotors since I saw a Fox Mustang crack two front rotors in back to back sessions with slotted rotors.

 

[Xceler8x]

I run Hawk HP+ and OE Blanks on my fox.  Horrible on the street, squeal like a freight train and coat the wheels black before I get out of the neighborhood.  So yea, track only. Carbotech's are FANTASTIC just get a bit pricey.  Slotted and cross drilled rotors are great bling.  But when put through hard use, will fail (cracks from the holes) or chew the pads up like what a cheese grater does.

I completely agree from my limited track time experience. I've seen that happen more times than it should. It would seem cross drilled/slotted rotors are the same old snake oil.

 

[Xceler8x]

Here's my first time ever on a road course...well after my warmup session with the instructor.

Turn on CC for my little commentary and once the session starts you'll want no volume...this is the low quality video, but it has the CC.

https://youtu.be/8l6h8M8yxI0

Great video SHOnUup. I've watched it a few times.

How was your tire wear during those laps? How long did your tires and pads last?

 

[Xceler8x]

Coming from 2010 Non-PP as myself, I would STRONGLY recommend you performing the auxiliary cooler add-ons that are found in/on the 2013+ PP equipped cars.

I was the 1st to retrofit them onto mine, & I'm incredibly confident in reporting not only have they proven extremely useful, but I'm positive they've saved my @ss for sure (thus far) on having to replace major components effected by the use of each auxiliary cooler.

The aforementioned advice provided by others, is sound too.

Check the "How-To" section(s) for my write ups.

I'll read those writeups. I'd like to install some coolers on my car before tracking at all but will have to weigh that against how many times I'll truly track it. I hear that some SHO owners are not installing the aux coolers and are changing their fluids more often to keep any mechanical failures down. Is that true?

 

[SHOnUup]

Highly suggest upgraded pads...when i took the land yacht (2011 SHO) I cooked a set of EBC red stuff pads and slotted rotors being my first time out. These cars get up to speed fast for 4400 lbs and then need to be stopped!!!

The experienced guys were swearing by blank rotors with either Hawk or CarboTech pads.

It was a blast and the car did well...from driving with the more experienced guys in more track worthy cars, the SHO was holding corners at the same speeds...when i entered correctly ^-^

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That is really encouraging to hear. I'm not expecting the family bruiser to be able to hang with even mildly prepped cars but it would be fun to take it out and dice it up some. I've got an E30 that I'm prepping for a combo date car/HPDE track rat. I would still like to get the SHO out there to see what it will do.

When you tracked yours did you have any modifications like brakes or suspension?

Good to know about rotor blanks and CarboTechs. I've never been a fan of crossdrilled or slotted rotors since I saw a Fox Mustang crack two front rotors in back to back sessions with slotted rotors.

I had the EBC red stuff pads & slotted rotors, definitely not a good combo for the track. Especially combined with my inexperience and a decent amount of slower traffic on the course. I literally melted them. Ran into traffic and started braking way to early...

Even got the calipers

Notice the grooves...mmmm

I do have Megan Racing coilovers and adjustable sway bar end links (not corner balanced, yet)...and a summer tire

Tire wear was very minimal on the almost new set of tires. Only got in 4 sessions at 20 minutes each...skipped a couple for brake cooling.

Did ruin a tire because the aftermarket lugs I used expanded with the heat and worked a little loose causing some bad scrubbing.

Learned a lot my first time out and can't wait to go again. Making plans now for a few events next year....I will be much more prepared.

I change my fluids all the time...I've changed oil with less than 500 miles on it. PTU has been changed 3 times in last 25k...Trans twice.

If I feel I've heated the fluids up to an extreme...they get changed

   

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[polskifacet]

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5389.msg88864.html#msg88864