A Question for LME on VTA
- Thread starter BiGMaC
- Start date
Livernois Motorsports
New member
BiGMaC said:
SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT I WAS OUT OF TOWN AT THE PRI SHOW ALL WEEK!
We do not recommend any VTA mods for the EB line. The reason that they create so much torque is because of the recirculating turbo system. Because of the recirculating turbos being switched out to VTA there would be a drop in power. This has been proven over and over in the Fusion, FiST and FoST models.
IHeartGroceries
New member
If possible, can you provide some data?
I'm trying to make things add up, but I don't see it.
With a speed density control loop, with metering downstream of the valves, what does it matter? Additionally, the valve(s) primary function takes place when there isn't even load on the engine.
I'm trying to make things add up, but I don't see it.
With a speed density control loop, with metering downstream of the valves, what does it matter? Additionally, the valve(s) primary function takes place when there isn't even load on the engine.
peppelepugh
New member
welp.... might just slap the recirc pipes back on.... it was fun while it lasted... lol
I have aftermarket hot pipes with a TiAL blow off valve and I have to disagree. Unless you can show me numbers to prove this. The valve only opens when I let off the gas and only for a split second, it does not open when it shifts as it is staying in boost. I ran the same times at the track with the stock pipes and with the aftermarket pipes vented to the atmosphere.
I bought the pipes used or I would have stayed with the stock BOV's because I am not a big fan of the noise but my performance has not been reduced from the pipes. When I was at the track after installing them it was warmer and more humid and the car still ran the same.
I bought the pipes used or I would have stayed with the stock BOV's because I am not a big fan of the noise but my performance has not been reduced from the pipes. When I was at the track after installing them it was warmer and more humid and the car still ran the same.
panther427
New member
4DRHTRD said:
I too would like to see this done. I can see both sides of the picture. Both it not having an effect and it having an effect. Though in my personal thoughts is a wot pull it won't matter. But part throttle daily driving throttle response could be hurt. Adding a hair more lag.
So here's my thought, on an auto car the BoV is closed, all the time unless releasing the throttle. How can this impact the HP of the car? I floor it from a stand still all the way through the 1/4 mile, when does the BoV open that would cause any type of effect on this engine.
4 cylinder, stick yes, I can see it as they describe, V6 auto, hmm no.
4 cylinder, stick yes, I can see it as they describe, V6 auto, hmm no.
I believe the car still factors in the amount of air released from the BOV and when you vent it to atmosphere you're losing that small amount of metered air. That could have a affect on air fuel ratios, however small of a affect it might have. Try checking your air fuel ratios in similar conditions, VTA and recirculated. I know I threw mine on a while back.
State something simple, need a written and logged statement including data.....
Sell a new product, don't need any kind of proof to make claims.
Pretty weird how some of you choose to just accept some vendors claims, and others you dont.
Pretty damn lame and actually childish....makes me question the entire being of this site and what's pushed here now.
Rich
Sell a new product, don't need any kind of proof to make claims.
Pretty weird how some of you choose to just accept some vendors claims, and others you dont.
Pretty damn lame and actually childish....makes me question the entire being of this site and what's pushed here now.
Rich
No dis to anyone intended.. I have the utmost respect for our membership as well as both LME and Dan Millen, but I do have trouble understanding why VTA would compromise performance for the reasons people site, and hope for insight as I am trying to understand how my engine functions...like are there specific instances where VTA compromises the 3.5TT GDI performance and if it is a statement that holds across all EB versions? I acknowledge that dyno pulls can differ from real world at times for a number of reasons.
Maybe I'm off base, but I perceive the requests for dyno data as desire for quantification.... So that informed decisions can be made when modding.
Maybe I'm off base, but I perceive the requests for dyno data as desire for quantification.... So that informed decisions can be made when modding.
I claim at best cursory knowledge of this situation, but the discussions around the web w regard to VTA revolve around: a) do you have MAF or MAP, b) do you have a BPV or a BOV, and c) where is the valve physically located in relation to the MAF/MAP sensor? If we all dig into this research project, maybe we can find links/discussions/data out there 
Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.
First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.4DRHTRD said:
Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.
When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.
When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.
I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.
I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.
Rich
Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.SHOnUup said:
Livernois Motorsports
New member
We wanted to go through and add some clarity on this. First of all, let us be straight. An atmospheric BOV in and of itself does not impact the power output, however there are a few things that we look at long term here. It was worded poorly on our part, which is why we want to clear it up. #1, while they seem simple to install, they often times are not and we have had numerous instances where they created issues because of improper install. This can of course be said with just about anything, but the BOV is in integral part of the logic in the ECM. There is indeed a reasoning for this, and going pure mechanical is taking a step backwards in technology. If you are chasing sound, that's perfectly fine, but it's not something we recommend as we take it upon ourselves to only recommend products that add to the performance of these cars.
Now, in addition to the possibility of improper install, you do have to take into account the fact that to install this, would require the introduction of metal charge pipes. This is also a technological step backwards. With the constraints of the engine bay, and the fact that there is already a great deal of heat being generated in a tight space, the hard piping associated with an atmospheric BOV is the real root cause of degraded performance.
So, in summary. No, it was phrased incorrectly on our part, an atmospheric BOV does not inhibit power or performance. BUT, it adds nothing, and the other aspects needed to install one makes us feel that it is a step backwards in performance, and technology. Which these two items are what makes the EcoBoost platforms so appealing in the first place, so this is the core to why we do not recommend them.
Now, in addition to the possibility of improper install, you do have to take into account the fact that to install this, would require the introduction of metal charge pipes. This is also a technological step backwards. With the constraints of the engine bay, and the fact that there is already a great deal of heat being generated in a tight space, the hard piping associated with an atmospheric BOV is the real root cause of degraded performance.
So, in summary. No, it was phrased incorrectly on our part, an atmospheric BOV does not inhibit power or performance. BUT, it adds nothing, and the other aspects needed to install one makes us feel that it is a step backwards in performance, and technology. Which these two items are what makes the EcoBoost platforms so appealing in the first place, so this is the core to why we do not recommend them.
