ACES IV - An effective octane booster and anti-wear additive?

[glock-coma]

I just spent a nice chunk of my kids inheritance on lubricants from top to bottom for the BBG!

Looking forward to your review.

x2^^^^^^

 

[BND 370 Hemi]

Just the response I was hoping for.  I am excited to see outcomes from the first adopters.  The ACES IV product seems the most appealing at this point in time for me, though I certainly do not mind swapping out oil and coolant.

Glad to hear you agree with what we do.  Looking forward to working with you once you feel confident in our product offerings.  Doing the 3 legs of the stool .......gives the car palpable performance and increased durability.

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com 

 

[BND 370 Hemi]

BND- what is the longevity and utility for your products in a vehicle that is not a daily driver, or performance oriented?

Good question!!  I have 5 vehicles that I store and have for many years.  1969 Dodge Charger 383 4bbl, 1985 Dodge Daytona Turbo Z, 2000 Chrysler 300M 3.5L SOHC, 2006 Dodge Charger 6.1L SRT8 and a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan R/T.  These sit over the winter and even part of the summer as I spend most of my time providing materials for everyone else to use and drive.  The 06 Charger SRT8 I bought brand new and just turned 11,000 miles last Saturday.  The 69 Charger has really sat for 7 years but will start up and run and drive fine when I do take it out....just did last Friday/Saturday. 

Anyway, these materials we make are tailor made to the applications we are given.  Think of Lowes or Home Depot buying paint.  You go to them for a specific interior latex semi-gloss and you hand the paint guy a color swatch for the exact color you want paint for.  Once he makes that paint, it is your paint for your application and at this time.  We see our products in the same venue.  Not only what do you have, but what mods do you have, is it stock, how is it used and where does it live.  Is it driven every day or sit 6 to 9 months of the year.  Is it in the sands of Arizona or the salted streets of Cleveland.  Not only cast block, aluminum head, injected, but sits in the garage with still a relative humidity of 40%.  We have to add tackifiers, demulsifiers to keep water from damaging and emulsifying the oils.  When we make a lubricant it is good for at least 10k miles between changes or 2 years....whichever comes first.  This is the reason for the increased amount of zinc, phosphorous and calcium.  The magnesium detergents are diesel locomotive quality so that it will get clean and keep clean any engine it is put in.  This is what custom blended lubricants are all about.  Specifically for you and not trying to be everything to everyone everywhere all the time.  That is the definition of mediocrity! 

  I have a 95 Mustang GT convertible that  only comes out a handful of times during the spring-fall weather.  It has 29k miles on it.  I currently use OEM products in it, though several years ago switched from using the Ford recommended blended oil to full synthetic.

The bad thing about the Group IV oils is that their characteristics are very small molecule oils and tend to be aggressive on the seals as well as very bad at dropping their additive packages in the pans. This is accentuated by long term storage where they never whip back up into the oil and end up being gummy and sticky....not a good characteristic for storing a car!  We go an opposite direction in not using any PAO based oils at all and design our own larger molecule structure.....that is still synthetic but by mineral stocks and not condensed natural gas or GTL!

With what you have there on the GT, it would do well with a 12.5w32 HP Competition Formula designed for your 5.0L HO engine.  I know it is supposed to have a 5w20 but you aren't driving the car in -47 degrees below 0 weather so a 12.5 is good for -7 below 0 but much better to 140 degrees ambient temperatures.  Also plenty of additives designed specifically for storage use.  Same can be done for steering system, transmission...AOD-E automatic, and the differential.  Remember these all have vents that bring in and expel atmosphere.  Designing them right up front cost a little more than off the shelf but contain significant protection that a price oil off the shelf just doesnt' have frankly!

My thought is that anything that provides added lubricity is a good thing, however the products needs sticking power to be able to last without circulating throughout as frequently as most would prefer.  Cleaning the internal engine is less of a concern, but who would actually turn that down?

Right. This is why we add tackifiers to the oils so that there are no dry starts and the compound have integrity so that no storage problems can occur.  You want the cleanliness and the purity to be tantamount in a storage car because they do not get circulated like an every day to and from work and weekend project vehicle.....like a minivan etc.  Design becomes significant to the health of the vehicle. 

Though, using the product like ACES IV at every fill up might not be possible long term.

Depends on what your goals are for the car.  I have 238,000 miles on my 2005 Grand Caravan SXT 3.8L (and was supposed to be run on 5w20...yet has been running a 12.5w35 for 11 years) and have used ACES IV in every tank of fuel over the last 11 years....bought it in 2004.
At 168,200 miles we broke an intake spring and an exhaust spring.  Had to pull the head and do a water test on the head.....not a single valve leaked water....and it should have been a sprinkling can by that many miles.  Van was put back together with new springs, valve locks and valve seals and is driven every day.  Doens't burn oil and gets 25 mpg on the highway still to this day.  With the ethanol fuels and no lubricity left as there is no sulfur either....starting and running your car with these fuels is detrimental.  Buying a gallon of ACES IV and using 15 gallons per week, a gallon would last you a year.  Is .74 cents per day worth 6 times less ring and bore wear, 4 times less stem and guide wear and 5 times less valve face and seat damage......I think so and 12,000 other customers agree with that so far.  Treated just at 5 billion gallons of fuel...(including diesel) and 100 million Miles + on our lubricants.  Presently we have a 99% reorder rate on ACES IV and a 98.7% reorder rate on everything else we do.

I bring this up because a few years ago the transmission was acting up- having trouble shifting, the shifts were prolonged, stuttered, and overly harsh.  Took it to the mechanic, who advised a flush.  After a double flush, and some minor driving it was determined that the cause was torque converter chatter due to simply not allowing the fluids to circulate.  It was believed that gravity had pulled the fluids down, and without driving the vehicle to recirculate them, they stayed, going to waste until I started the car and drove it which while did start to circulate the fluid, was still catching up on lubricating everything.  I also got a quick lesson in how fluids work to absorb water regardless of if the car is running or not, and why all fluid changes are based on mileage and time duration.

I have this discussion with people every week as they believe that going to a "synthetic" oil is somehow going to save them because they spent a little more for it and it is supposed to be better especially when they have heard stories of mineral oils damaging things in storage.  Both will damage a stored car if they do not contain the materials necessary for protection.  There is very little thought to longevity in an off the shelf oil because it is assumed they will do the 3,000 to 5,000 mile drain interval and or do it every 6 months.  Remember too that what you buy off the shelf at any local store or dealer comes from a distribution network. 

Manufacturer to wholesaler to sub-wholesaler to retailer to you.  So in this scenario...you buy a $7.80 quart of Mobil 1 that cost the retailer $4.68 (40% profit) that purchased it from their supplier (sub-wholesaler) which buys a single pallet of oil who makes 30% profit who paid $3.28 who got it from a wholesaler who makes 30% profit that paid $2.29 for that lubricant who bought it in truck loads from Mobil which had a total cost of $1.72.  So when the tribologist....like me is told to make the best lubricant you can BUT you need to do it for no more than $1.72.......Wrong way to make a lubricant and certainly not designed for any kind of time or storage in mind!!  But this is what I mean by a price oil.  Ending price point dictates what initial cost has to be.  This is why our lubricants are more expensive on the front end.  Because we have a much larger molecule structure, still synthetic, but with significantly more and better materials designed for a specific customer each and every time because our customer base demands performance in all aspects....not just a good price.  We have the best price if you consider not having to change out your engine oil on a stored car every 6 months and changing all the other fluids every 2 years.  How many people really change their differential, transmission and steering system fluids every 2 years while in storage!?  I still talk to people to this day that don't realize that they have to flush their brake fluid every 2 years or it will eventually come out of the calipers like mayonnaise.  Price is a one time thing but cost is a lifetime thing. 

That experience is now always in the back of my mind.  Sure I start the car more often during the off months now.  But anything that can assist in the long term protection is going to get my attention.

Depending on the situation, starting it every month or so....if it brings the temps above dew point and then is cooled down at or below dew point will actually promote MORE moisture retention than just leaving it sit and assimilate the ambient temps during storage.  We have to think of everything here to protect the vehicles we love so much. 


You mentioned that your oils surpass SAE standards.  I'd like to see if that is something I could take advantage of in a garage queen for the engine and trans.

Yes, they are much more robust in their design, contents and in performance.  Whether it is a fire breathing vehicle that you tear pavement with or just a nice factory vehicle you want to take care of, we take that into consideration and make a specific material for you....as you are a person living in a certain place and driving a specific vehicle and not just a number on an SAE chart!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I gave Brian my credit card number yesterday around 2, my order showed up on my doorstep at 1130 am today.

Thanks for the lightening fast service!

 

[SHOdded]

Let the games begin!

 

[BiGMaC]

I gave Brian my credit card number yesterday around 2, my order showed up on my doorstep at 1130 am today.

Thanks for the lightening fast service!

Awesome service!

 

[92BlackGT]

welp, i just place an order for some ACES IV and motor oil. Brian said he would stay late to make sure my oil gets made up tonight so he could ship it out ASAP. i'm looking forward to protecting my engine!

 

[SHOdded]

Bravo, and good luck!

 

[J-Will]

those that can, please data log some before and afters.  I'm really interested in that Learned Octane value and KR

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

those that can, please data log some before and afters.  I'm really interested in that Learned Octane value and KR

I don't have a stock log.

I am not tuned but I do have the Typhoon installed currently.

Aces IV went in Saturday and the break-in oil was removed and Quantum blue added today.

OAR (LOR) is not logged but it hasn't moved from -1 and that was going from E20 + M.18 to just the ACES.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

So I wanted to give some initial impressions with the Aces IV...

The two days prior to install I started seeing lots of +KR and not nearly as much -. (some trips I wouldn't see-4 at all!)I was getting frustrated as i was seeing +7 at times and it started out of the blue. Same blend I've been running and same stations so IDK what was going on.

First off, I hate the squeeze bottle! Need one with a 1 OZ graduation.  (Could be operator error I guess, lol, I was a little frustrated) I filled it up, went to drop Mrs. FoMoCoSHO off at her car, then realized I didn't shake it. DAMMIT TO HELL! Back to the house, dumped back in original container, shook it up this time, refilled squeeze bottle, and finally off to Shell. 

Adding in the ACES made an immediate improvement to the negative KR side. Behaved similar to corn, maybe more sensitive to throttle inputs actually. Positive events subsided immediately as well. The events are still there but the severity and frequency dropped quite dramatically. I used 3.25 ounces on the initial fillup.

Other than that the car ran like crap Saturday and yesterday and Torque confirmed the power drop. Still  having weird KR events so I think I'm going to switch to the Shell station I used to use. Even before this last weirdness I've seen some unexpected fuel trim behavior as well recently.

Today however, the car seemed to work it out somewhat and it feels much like it did on the corn, once again confirmed by Torque power readings.

The car is still pulling fuel and the trims are not dialed in yet. I am seeing LTFT of -.8 in bank 2 at times and I never saw that when I was using straight Shell so that is at least an indication that the mixture is indeed "fatter" as Brian refers to and the car is pulling fuel to adjust. I filled up at a little less that a quarter tank so still dealing with a little E and M in the mix as well. My guess is at least another complete tank before we consider the old blend to "trace amounts".

I know a couple of the other guys have ordered so I'm curious about their experiences. I'm concerned that I have a fuel quality issue coinciding with the switch so I'm not sure I'm providing the best data right now.

 

[SHOdded]

Def have to give the car some time to adjust, if it's anything like products that I have logged with my Edge.  Sometimes it takes a 100 miles or so of varied driving to settle in and give consistent trims & readings.  Heck it happens just by switching gas stations!  I went from Shell (top tier, same station) to Safeway (grocery tier) gas, and the logs were pretty wild.  Adding an octane booster like 104+ also elicited similar behavior, though it took less time for the trims to settle in.

 

[BiGMaC]

So I wanted to give some initial impressions with the Aces IV...

The two days prior to install I started seeing lots of +KR and not nearly as much -. (some trips I wouldn't see-4 at all!)I was getting frustrated as i was seeing +7 at times and it started out of the blue. Same blend I've been running and same stations so IDK what was going on.

First off, I hate the squeeze bottle! Need one with a 1 OZ graduation.  (Could be operator error I guess, lol, I was a little frustrated) I filled it up, went to drop Mrs. FoMoCoSHO off at her car, then realized I didn't shake it. DAMMIT TO HELL! Back to the house, dumped back in original container, shook it up this time, refilled squeeze bottle, and finally off to Shell. 

Adding in the ACES made an immediate improvement to the negative KR side. Behaved similar to corn, maybe more sensitive to throttle inputs actually. Positive events subsided immediately as well. The events are still there but the severity and frequency dropped quite dramatically. I used 3.25 ounces on the initial fillup.

Other than that the car ran like crap Saturday and yesterday and Torque confirmed the power drop. Still  having weird KR events so I think I'm going to switch to the Shell station I used to use. Even before this last weirdness I've seen some unexpected fuel trim behavior as well recently.

Today however, the car seemed to work it out somewhat and it feels much like it did on the corn, once again confirmed by Torque power readings.

The car is still pulling fuel and the trims are not dialed in yet. I am seeing LTFT of -.8 in bank 2 at times and I never saw that when I was using straight Shell so that is at least an indication that the mixture is indeed "fatter" as Brian refers to and the car is pulling fuel to adjust. I filled up at a little less that a quarter tank so still dealing with a little E and M in the mix as well. My guess is at least another complete tank before we consider the old blend to "trace amounts".

I know a couple of the other guys have ordered so I'm curious about their experiences. I'm concerned that I have a fuel quality issue coinciding with the switch so I'm not sure I'm providing the best data right now.

Excellent initial feedback... Thanks! More please.
Also would be interested if changing Shell stations helps. As I have posted... My SHO just didn't like the new nitro plus as well as the (two month) older Shell formulation or Chevron.

 

[Dxlnt1]

So I wanted to give some initial impressions with the Aces IV...

The two days prior to install I started seeing lots of +KR and not nearly as much -. (some trips I wouldn't see-4 at all!)I was getting frustrated as i was seeing +7 at times and it started out of the blue. Same blend I've been running and same stations so IDK what was going on.

First off, I hate the squeeze bottle! Need one with a 1 OZ graduation.  (Could be operator error I guess, lol, I was a little frustrated) I filled it up, went to drop Mrs. FoMoCoSHO off at her car, then realized I didn't shake it. DAMMIT TO HELL! Back to the house, dumped back in original container, shook it up this time, refilled squeeze bottle, and finally off to Shell. 

Adding in the ACES made an immediate improvement to the negative KR side. Behaved similar to corn, maybe more sensitive to throttle inputs actually. Positive events subsided immediately as well. The events are still there but the severity and frequency dropped quite dramatically. I used 3.25 ounces on the initial fillup.

Other than that the car ran like crap Saturday and yesterday and Torque confirmed the power drop. Still  having weird KR events so I think I'm going to switch to the Shell station I used to use. Even before this last weirdness I've seen some unexpected fuel trim behavior as well recently.

Today however, the car seemed to work it out somewhat and it feels much like it did on the corn, once again confirmed by Torque power readings.

The car is still pulling fuel and the trims are not dialed in yet. I am seeing LTFT of -.8 in bank 2 at times and I never saw that when I was using straight Shell so that is at least an indication that the mixture is indeed "fatter" as Brian refers to and the car is pulling fuel to adjust. I filled up at a little less that a quarter tank so still dealing with a little E and M in the mix as well. My guess is at least another complete tank before we consider the old blend to "trace amounts".

I know a couple of the other guys have ordered so I'm curious about their experiences. I'm concerned that I have a fuel quality issue coinciding with the switch so I'm not sure I'm providing the best data right now.

Are you doing mostly city or highway driving?

Def have to give the car some time to adjust, if it's anything like products that I have logged with my Edge.  Sometimes it takes a 100 miles or so of varied driving to settle in and give consistent trims & readings.  Heck it happens just by switching gas stations!  I went from Shell (top tier, same station) to Safeway (grocery tier) gas, and the logs were pretty wild.  Adding an octane booster like 104+ also elicited similar behavior, though it took less time for the trims to settle in.

I will be installing the ACES IV in my truck, then taking a road trip. Roughly 1200 miles roundtrip. My conversations with Brian were he likes the idea of the constant load on engine while "purging!" Then when I return I will add the ACES to the SHO. I will make another trip just for the burn in. Albeit that trip will only be 300 miles roundtrip it should still allow most everything to be cleaned pretty good.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Dealing with 2 separate stations doesn't help narrow it down, lol.

Luckily the ACES testing has eliminated the E-85 station and I will just go to my old Shell.

No Chevron to try around here.

I got a shiny new tune tonight so I will continue to update as we log and retune.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

DX, almost all city with some short hwy blasts....

 

[Dxlnt1]

DX, almost all city with some short hwy blasts....

Being of the ole skool thinking, I have always believed a good blow job does a car good. Meaning a highway trip. Most cars here in L.A. do city driving. Stop n go traffic so dont really get to let the car take a deep breath for long stretch.

Just always my thinking for road trips are awesome for that reason.

 

[BND 370 Hemi]

Dealing with 2 separate stations doesn't help narrow it down, lol.

Luckily the ACES testing has eliminated the E-85 station and I will just go to my old Shell.

No Chevron to try around here.

I got a shiny new tune tonight so I will continue to update as we log and retune.

I have been watching the dialogue here and one thing I wanted to interject is that we are also getting to the time of the winter fuel bleed.  It is not uncommon for refineries to begin early introduction of winter blended fuels into the pipeline in anticipation of it turning cold.  Typically they don't do this until mid September as they have a drop dead date of October 1.  Ohio gets the fuels that Michigan, Indiana and Kentucky won't certify so we get the butt end of fuels to begin with.

Keep running the ACES IV and allow it to clean out what is in your tank and fuel system/engine.  We delaminate the deposits and then burn them.  First one or even two tanks can take time for the engine system to balance out what it wants to do with the oxygen and hydrogen compounds in ACES IV. 

Remember that winter fuels are full by October 1 nationwide and get progressively worse until it culminates with January being the most worst for performance and then slowly better until they bleed summer RVP fuels in the mid April.  I give all our customers the May 1st to Sept 15th as the performance fuels window at the pump.

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com

 

[SHOdded]

Good point, Brian!  How easy is it to tell a winter blend is in place, aside from a drop in mpg?  What do you think of the kits that allow you to test ethanol %age at the pump?  Are they useful for this identification?

 

[BND 370 Hemi]

Good point, Brian!  How easy is it to tell a winter blend is in place, aside from a drop in mpg?

What you are looking for is the Reid Vapor pressure.  Typically on the pumps you will see RVP fuel from June 1 to September 15.  This is a low RVP in the 6.3 range so it is less volatile meaning that it is more compressible for your performance use.  By January you could potentially see 12 RVP which means it will vaporize very quickly.  Remember that high vaporizing fuel is terrible for the summer and low RVP is terrible for the winter.  However, when you have a high RVP you also have less BTU value and it burns up faster too while hitting all kinds of knock retard.....hence your reduction in mpg as you stated too.

Here is wiki:

"Reid vapor pressure (RVP) is a common measure of the volatility of gasoline. It is defined as the absolute vapor pressure exerted by a liquid at 100 °F (37.8 °C) as determined by the test method ASTM-D-323. The test method applies to volatile crude oil and volatile nonviscous petroleum liquids, except liquefied petroleum gases.

The matter of vapor pressure is important relating to the function and operation of gasoline powered, especially carbureted, vehicles. High levels of vaporization are desirable for winter starting and operation and lower levels are desirable in avoiding vapor lock during summer heat. Fuel cannot be pumped when there is vapor in the fuel line (summer) and winter starting will be more difficult when liquid gasoline in the combustion chambers has not vaporized. Thus, oil refineries manipulate the Reid Vapor Pressure seasonally specifically to maintain gasoline engine reliability."

What do you think of the kits that allow you to test ethanol %age at the pump?  Are they useful for this identification?

No, ethanol is used more for octane purposes but not for BTU value which has to do with volatility and RVP.  They are good to determine what you have in the fuel and remember that while straight gasoline has 126,000 BTU per gallon, Ethyl alcohol only has 87,500 BTU per gallon.  So the ratio will be % gasoline x 126,000 + % Ethanol x 87,500 = Total BTU.

On testing for ethanol, we used to take a 200 ml test tube and fill it with 100 ml of gasoline and 30 ml of water and put a cork in the top.  Then we would shake it several times and release the pressure under the cork.  If we had 10% alcohol, the affinity to the water would be greater than the affinity to the gasoline so you would end up with 90 ml of gasoline and 40 ml of what looked like water.  This is an easy way to do it without expensive kits.  This is actually what happens in our gasoline tank with the vent.  Very quickly the atmospheric moisture will take your 93 octane fuel and turn it to 83 octane fuel and then we wonder why we have so much Long term knock retard and short term knock retard.  About this time every year I begin to get phone calls about the temperature cooling down but having more knock retard.....this is the reason!

When we put ACES IV in the fuel, it helps to stop the ethanol hygroscopic nature and stabilize the fuel. 

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com