Archoil

[sunwolf]

I would also like to know how it lowers ethanol content.

Cause that's not necessarily a good thing in DI cars anyway....

I wonder if the ethanol absorbs it like H2O????

The reason I'm asking is because it can't. The methanol does not absorb the water, it allows the water to become soluble in the gas which allows it to be removed when it goes through the engine with the gas. This stuff shouldn't be able to make ethanol disappear, it just puts it somewhere else.

Methanol is hygroscopic, it does absorb the water.

http://web.eng.ucsd.edu/mae/groups/combustion/NASA/water.html

Data comes from here

http://web.eng.ucsd.edu/mae/groups/combustion/NASA/micro-g.html#Theoretical%20Study

Most likely a bad test though...

I did find this however....

"Certain hygroscopic substances, not only absorb moisture from the air, but also dissolve themselves in that moisture, undergoing a change of state. Such substances are called deliquescent substances. The process is called Deliquescence."

http://chem-guide.blogspot.com/2010/04/hygroscopic.html

I wonder if that applies to hygroscopic substances in a solution as well.

Yes if you leave the cap off of a bottle of 100% methanol it will take in water from the air. If you add a bottle of methanol to a gas tank with some ethanol or water in it there is still the same amount of ethanol or water in the tank. The methanol is not absorbing anything it is just making it mix better.

 

[wasinger3000]

I would also like to know how it lowers ethanol content.

Cause that's not necessarily a good thing in DI cars anyway....

I wonder if the ethanol absorbs it like H2O????

The reason I'm asking is because it can't. The methanol does not absorb the water, it allows the water to become soluble in the gas which allows it to be removed when it goes through the engine with the gas. This stuff shouldn't be able to make ethanol disappear, it just puts it somewhere else.

Methanol is hygroscopic, it does absorb the water.

http://web.eng.ucsd.edu/mae/groups/combustion/NASA/water.html

Data comes from here

http://web.eng.ucsd.edu/mae/groups/combustion/NASA/micro-g.html#Theoretical%20Study

Most likely a bad test though...

I did find this however....

"Certain hygroscopic substances, not only absorb moisture from the air, but also dissolve themselves in that moisture, undergoing a change of state. Such substances are called deliquescent substances. The process is called Deliquescence."

http://chem-guide.blogspot.com/2010/04/hygroscopic.html

I wonder if that applies to hygroscopic substances in a solution as well.

Yes if you leave the cap off of a bottle of 100% methanol it will take in water from the air. If you add a bottle of methanol to a gas tank with some ethanol or water in it there is still the same amount of ethanol or water in the tank. The methanol is not absorbing anything it is just making it mix better.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

 

[sunwolf]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

 

[wasinger3000]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

Lol not trying to argue, and I understand the water is not removed. I was just stating it is absorbed.

 

[jtoddk98]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

Lol not trying to argue, and I understand the water is not removed. I was just stating it is absorbed.

have you used the oil stuff yet?


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[wasinger3000]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

Lol not trying to argue, and I understand the water is not removed. I was just stating it is absorbed.

have you used the oil stuff yet?


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Just put it in my car Wednesday. To early to make any serious claims.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

Lol not trying to argue, and I understand the water is not removed. I was just stating it is absorbed.

So as I look at diagrams of of meth and water in a solution, it seems the term "adsorbed" would apply better. My non science brain boils it down to basically, it just grabs the water and carries it to the goalpost.(injector)

 

[wasinger3000]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

"Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. This could be by an increase in volume, boiling point, viscosity or other physical characteristic of the substance, as water molecules can become suspended between the substance's molecules in the process."

In short, methanol will suspend moisture through a physical change.

Yes the moisture is suspended but it is still there. If there are 2 ounces of water in your gas tank there are still 2 ounces when the methanol is added it is just more dispersed. Not trying to start a fight this stuff is just part of my daily life being a chemist. Also hygroscopy refers to the ability of a solid or liquid to absorb water vapor from air. The term does not directly apply for mixing liquid water with liquid methanol.

Lol not trying to argue, and I understand the water is not removed. I was just stating it is absorbed.

So as I look at diagrams of of meth and water in a solution, it seems the term "adsorbed" would apply better. My non science brain boils it down to basically, it just grabs the water and carries it to the goalpost.(injector)

Yeah that's all it is doing. It's just suspending the water. I've been mixing water and meth in a Glas jar at different % and temperature to see how it reacts.

Since I've switched to 100% injection I've noticed less of a intake temperature drop than I had with 90%m 10%w.

 

[f8tlSHO]

I ordered my archoil sample, should be here in a day or 2. See if it does anything


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[f8tlSHO]

I didn't notice a difference in power or mpg, did not check temps


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