Bad rotor(s) giving symptoms of an out of balance wheel(s)?
- Thread starter SilvererSHO
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SilvererSHO
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ZSHO said:
I'm starting to think so too. I'll set up an appointment with the shop I bought them from and if they can't find anything I'll swap them front to rear to see if the vibration seems to shift to the rear of the car. Then I'll at least know It's one of those two tires. How do you check for ply separation?
I completely agree with ZSHO! Check for a warped tire! Don't drive that thing far if that's the case! Bubbled tires, a broken belt or something is wrong with at least one of your tires. They will balance out just fine, but it's like you are driving on an oval instead of a circle causing major vibrations that will only get worse!
You say you KNOW you have a bad rotor? DEAL WITH THAT! You will have to eventually anyway, may as well eliminate it from the equation.
There is also a consensus that tire/wheels affect ride quality. That's the free option since this only became prevalent after you switched wheels.
You also asked how could brakes when not applied affect wheel rotation. Remember the pads only disengage from the rotor by a few centimeters, not inches. ANY movement off center CAN affect the rotating mass. The question becomes is it enough for you to feel it? I would say ALL of our cars do something that we DONT notice. Good or bad from as simple as turn signal not working to an engine misfire. Doesn't mean its not happening we just haven't noticed it.
If I read correctly, I think you said you are running 18" wheels? I may be wrong that is a NOT a factory size the SHO. Only 19" and/or 20" So best believe a non OEM size be it width OR diameter CAN affect rotational balance. And if tire installer balanced wheel as 18", 19" or 20". Sounds impossible but a simple oversight, MAYBE!
Also, you keep asking the same question. Almost like you are waiting to hear a silver bullet and AHA moment. There MAY not be. Possibilities are numerous. Try the easy and simple first.
Your solution that cost you nothing is to reinstall your summer tires. Then repair rotors/brakes. Oh just because a tire is new doesn't mean it is without defect. A used tire was used and replaced for a reason!
There is also a consensus that tire/wheels affect ride quality. That's the free option since this only became prevalent after you switched wheels.
You also asked how could brakes when not applied affect wheel rotation. Remember the pads only disengage from the rotor by a few centimeters, not inches. ANY movement off center CAN affect the rotating mass. The question becomes is it enough for you to feel it? I would say ALL of our cars do something that we DONT notice. Good or bad from as simple as turn signal not working to an engine misfire. Doesn't mean its not happening we just haven't noticed it.
If I read correctly, I think you said you are running 18" wheels? I may be wrong that is a NOT a factory size the SHO. Only 19" and/or 20" So best believe a non OEM size be it width OR diameter CAN affect rotational balance. And if tire installer balanced wheel as 18", 19" or 20". Sounds impossible but a simple oversight, MAYBE!
Also, you keep asking the same question. Almost like you are waiting to hear a silver bullet and AHA moment. There MAY not be. Possibilities are numerous. Try the easy and simple first.
Your solution that cost you nothing is to reinstall your summer tires. Then repair rotors/brakes. Oh just because a tire is new doesn't mean it is without defect. A used tire was used and replaced for a reason!
SilvererSHO
New member
Dxlnt1 said:
I do have bad rotors just like probably half the people running 10-12 SHO's have bad rotors too. I'm waiting 'till after Christmas to upgrade to a 13+ brake setup so why would I waste my time or money doing that when the brakes work fine and I have plenty of pad left? I never had this problem 'till I changed wheels and tires.
Never said anything about "ride quality" and as far as that goes it should be better with the 18" rubber vs. the 20" rubber so I don't understand your point. It's a vibration issue.
The pads do not disengage the rotors by a "few centimeters" on any car that I am aware of. Technically they don't disengage hardly at all.
Your fourth paragraph makes no sense. Are you aware how a tire is balanced? And did you miss the part where I said they've already been balanced twice?
Yes, I asked if a bad rotor could throw the balance off and you're the only person that claimed it could. Now after reading this post, I have to be honest with you, you give me no reason to believe you at all because you seem to be unaware how brakes work and tires are balanced.
I am NOT installing my summer tires when it's cold out. Why would I chance wrecking $800 worth of rubber? Did you read the two links I posted? And how is this a "solution"? There's a reason I put all seasons on the car for the winter.
SilvererSHO
New member
Last night I swapped the left front that I think is the culprit with the left rear. It seems to have shifted to the rear now so I think I at least have the bad tire narrowed down to that one hopefully. I'll find out what's wrong with it next week when I get it to the shop.
SilvererSHO said:
First, most people (especially "high performance" cars) don't knowingly drive on bad rotors! If a problem is discovered it is addressed hopefully sooner as opposed to later. You said you knowingly are driving on I believe you said cracked rotors! Very few if any reputable shops will install old rotors with new pads? So if you did that yourself for the sake of time and money for a later upgrade, then deal with the consequences of that decision that MAY surface. And your brakes apparently may not be working fine. Because you feeling vibration!
You never stated unless I missed it and I may have, that you intend to do a brake "UPGRADE" next year! If missed it and I may have, then a blonde moment by me. I APOLOGIZE! So the help that is offered is only as good as the information that is given. With that, I as well as others have suggested put the other tires back on and see. I suggested try them a few miles. Someone else said a few hours. And that within itself should not "destroy" them as you say. If driving on your "GOOD $800" tires for 20 miles or 2 hours destroys them then you have other issues with your car. I as well as others have stated wheels and/or tires as possibilities. Maybe you bought a car you couldn't afford?
The ride quality I was speaking of was the vibration. Vibration in the drive train or wheels affects what? RIDE QUALITY! Otherwise you wouldn't be here asking about a vibration that you "FEEL"! As for tire size, will an 18" ride "better" than 20"? I don't know. But you acknowledge that it will ride different! Which is why I said a non OEM size can affect things.
Personal attack? If YOU understood how a tire is balanced, you would know measurements of rim width and tire diameter are input into the spin balancer! Tire is then spun. I also said it could have been an oversight and MAYBE someone input wrong number. We're human and prone to mistakes.
With this, I will bow out of this discussion. It is becoming personal and if I "REACT" again as I should NOT have this time, it will get worse. So moderators and fellow members, forgive my tone.
But apparently you too (EXPLETIVE) novice to understand how your car works. Are too (EXPLETIVE) stubborn to try what has been suggested (reinstall "GOOD" tires). Too (EXPLETIVE) arrogant to receive input or suggestions from ALL members. SO go drive your (EXPLETIVE) car until the (EXPLETIVE) vibration rattles your (EXPLETIVE) teeth out! And you only have 6 post on this forum?
Now, go watch this (EXPLETIVE) video and (EXPLETIVE) LEARN how brakes work. Simply put, there is a (EXPLETIVE) clamping action and a (EXPLETIVE) releasing action that takes place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmls5foCor0
SilvererSHO
New member
Dxlnt1 said:
You don't get it do you? It's almost like you've read half of what I've posted and drawn conclusions or made up stuff out of thin air altogether. Nowhere did I say cracked rotors and nowhere did I say I've done any brake work. I also assume you still haven't read the links I provided about driving on summer performance tires in the cold weather. Yup, I know how to balance a tire dude. I worked at a tire shop when I was in school and did plenty of them. The reason you enter the width, diameter and offset is so the machine can calculate how much weight is needed. And even if you screwed that up any competent shop will spin them again after the weights are put on to see if it's fully balanced. And even if you don't enter anything into the machine zero is still zero as far as balance is concerned so it's damn near impossible to screw up if you spin it both before and after adding weights. Oh, and I see you missed AGAIN where I stated I had them balanced again just last Friday and they balanced fine. 6 posts? You can't get that right either I see. And as far as how brake calipers work you seem about as ignorant as can be on that subject. It's right there in your post. You said: "Remember the pads only disengage from the rotor by a few centimeters" :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: Well congratulations, that's the most ignorant statement I've ever seen posted here from anyone. Your last two paragraphs and your comment about me buying a car I can't afford just prove that I'm dealing with a man-child here anyways. One or more on every forum on the internet I guess. Good to know for future conversations here.
SilvererSHO
New member
SHOdded said:
I looked both tires over good last night when I swapped them and nothing stood out at all. The guys at the other tire shop last Friday didn't see anything either. I talked to the shop I bought the tires from and told them what's going on and they told me they'd mount a new tire in place of the one I think is bad even if they can't find anything wrong so hopefully that will take care of it. And if it's not that one, well then I guess I'm stuck trying to swap out the other tires with the one I took off which will fix the issue through process of elimination I guess but that will suck to have to do it that way.
glock-coma
New member
Have you tried switching the tires/wheels front to back?
Maybe something on the back of one wheel causing it not to mount flat on the hub.
Maybe something on the back of one wheel causing it not to mount flat on the hub.
Am I the only one that enjoyed the fill in the blank expletive game?
Sounds like you're getting there by having the vibration move with your swap. Just food for though...the problem could also be in the wheel. I know it balance and looked straight, but you never know. I don't think steelies are generally built to the highest quality levels.
Sounds like you're getting there by having the vibration move with your swap. Just food for though...the problem could also be in the wheel. I know it balance and looked straight, but you never know. I don't think steelies are generally built to the highest quality levels.
SilvererSHO
New member
glock-coma said:
Yes. Middle of the second page of this thread.
SilvererSHO
New member
sholxgt said:
I enjoyed the threat of where it may even get worse in his next post. Oooooooooo....I'm just shaking with fear just knowing that's a possibility.
Going to throw a little fuel on the fire. If its a dry day, you CAN drive on summer tires in the cold, you just need to leave a bit more braking distance and not drive like a fool. I drove my mustang in VA from the start of the college semester through to thanksgiving, on summer tires, and had a few days where it was sub 40 degrees. No issues because I was extra cautious. For the sake of troubleshooting brakes vs. wheels/tires I would do this. Go out at a time with minimal traffic, and drive a few miles on the other wheels/tires and see how it goes.
A stuck caliper CAN cause vibration but it would also cause excessive heat, to the point that the caliper would begin to look as though the finish is rusted (as they can get hotter than the paint/coating tolerance). In some cases, if it gets hot enough, you may also find yourself with damage to the finish on your wheels (chrome bubbling).
If you have a brake issue, regardless of tires/wheels, I would correct that FIRST, as there is no point in chasing other issues when you have a "known bad" part on the car. This is my .02 but brakes and wheels/tires, as well as suspension are some of the biggest safety factors, and IMO should be kept in tip-top shape at all times, as they are your first line of defense.
A stuck caliper CAN cause vibration but it would also cause excessive heat, to the point that the caliper would begin to look as though the finish is rusted (as they can get hotter than the paint/coating tolerance). In some cases, if it gets hot enough, you may also find yourself with damage to the finish on your wheels (chrome bubbling).
If you have a brake issue, regardless of tires/wheels, I would correct that FIRST, as there is no point in chasing other issues when you have a "known bad" part on the car. This is my .02 but brakes and wheels/tires, as well as suspension are some of the biggest safety factors, and IMO should be kept in tip-top shape at all times, as they are your first line of defense.
I agree with part of your insertion and would also try to rule out a sticky brake calliper.derfdog15 said:
The issue with a sticking brake calliper is that latter causes a massive wobble, the steering wheel is difficult to keep hold of and the wobble keeps going when you slow down, almost to a standstill!!
In the other hand Like all summer tires, they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice!
I think the owners manual specifically states that the OEM Eagle F1'S are not recommended/intended to be driven under 40 deg temps!. Z