Cutouts

[16xsport]

Anyone on the forums tried using cutouts on their builds? I threw some on my explorer and got my Livernois tune and after some troubleshooting found that I was getting some blowout due to the plugs not being gapped to .030. When I had the cutouts open or closed I was getting the blowout. I regapped the plugs and when I have the cutouts closed the blowout seems to have gone away but then when I open them up I get the blowout back and it shudders but not as bad as before I gapped them...

Does the ecoboost just not like being completely free flowing? Other FI applications I have built loved being free of backpressure but this does not seem to be the case. If that is true, guess I will have to build my exhaust sooner than anticipated... >

(disclaimer: I have spoken with Livernois about the issue and they have been very helpful. I just want to get a community consensus about the issue so later on down the road people like me wont toss $400 down the drain)

 

[ajpturbo]

Why are you so confident that stuttering is a symptom blowout?...sounds like you have other issues...no spark problems with my stock plugs to this point...im lucky i guess

I would say the ecoboost loves to be free flowing

 

[ajpturbo]

If it were my car i would log and check for things like actual throttle angle. Often the throttle blade changes when you have the pedal to the floor and it can feel like power surges and pull backs...check that boost levels and load are smooth and steady throughout a pull. Check that the spark curve is smooth and slowly increasing with rpm provided load/boost is the same...misfire counts.

Is afr smooth and consistent....jagged afr readings can be indicative of spark blowout in a log...just somethings to look for when actually diagnosing spark blowout before jumping to conclusions

 

[16xsport]

I am going with blowout due to the recommendation by a lot of the community to regap the plugs, which I have done, to .030. The feeling and how its acting is very similar to when I was having a lot of blowout in my supra a few years back. That is why I am assuming its blowout. I do need to datalog and see what it actually going on, just don't have a logger at the moment. But I wanted to get the feedback of the community on their experience or what they have seen. I in all honesty am confused at how the explorer can run just fine with the cutouts open before the tune but then I run into issues when it gets a tune onto it. I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am. 

 

[ajpturbo]

I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am.

Lol...they are true professionals that have mastered your tune...your dabbling in your previous tuning endeavors pale in comparison to their tuning accomplishments.

Maybe you are getting some reversion of air through your cutouts making your 02 sensors read erratically since the large cutout holes are not far from the primary o2 sensors..need logs

 

[16xsport]

I have always run 93 in the car and I am not new the building cars and diagnosing issues that arise but Livernois insists on talking to me like I am.

Lol...they are true professionals that have mastered your tune...your dabbling in your previous tuning endeavors pale in comparison to their tuning accomplishments.

I sense sarcasm?

They are after the downpipes, so I dont think that should be an issue. I can see the blowout due to the increased flow of air but it just seems odd to me that the stock tune didnt have an issue with the better flowing exhaust but the Livernois tune does. Either way, I ordered a logger and we shall see what is actually going on inside there tomorrow.

 

[ajpturbo]

What logger?....ashame the 600 for the tune and device doesnt come with a logger.

I dont see the increased airflow causing blowout at all...not at the modest boost levels of the lms tune

 

[16xsport]

And that's why I am surprised to see it, however I just loaded the 91 tune and the backfire and missing is completely gone. Sooo, bad fuel from the station or too much timing on the tune?? We shall see next fill. I got the innovate logger, kinda a toss up with the loggers. Seemed like an equal amount of good and bad reviews

 

[SHOdded]

Without further data, it is very likely that fuel might indeed be the culprit here.  You gotta remember, stock tunes leave a lot of headroom, the "hotter" the tune, the less headroom and more ingredient-sensitive your EB ride will become.  And if you live in an area with summer/winter gas formulations, all the more important to use the freshest, preferably top tier, fuel with octane rating equivalent to at least that required by the tune.

 

[ajpturbo]

The spark curve would have to be grossly out of whack so i doubt thats the problem....the timing tables could be really out of whack and the knock sensors would adjust as required...these engines rarely knock , we simply see the knock retard but not actual knock

 

[SHOdded]

May not be a perfect fix, but if better fuel eliminates the symptoms, that's a good thing IMHO.  Something the driver has in his control to try out.  As everyone knows by now (most likely) I do support datalogging when & where possible with Forscan and Torque Pro (being the cheapest most reliable options), but also recognize they are not the speediest dataloggers due to the OBD adapter speed limitations (what I CAN confirm).

 

[16xsport]

Well, like I said before, the 91 tune fixed the issue but from all of my past endeavors I have not run into a problem where a 2 octane rating was the difference between some pretty bad missing and running perfectly fine. But I have never worked with the EB platform before so I am figuring out all of the quirks as I go. I live in the southern most part of central Florida so no summer/winter mixes here. I am going to try a different gas station the next fill and see if it is any better. I should be getting the logger in tomorrow so I can see what actually is going on with the motor and see where the problem is. I hope it is just fuel and not something more difficult to deal with.


Recap for those just joining us:

93 tune for 3 BAR and Downpipes: Missing and stumbling at high RPM under acceleration with cutouts open or closed
93 tune for same but minus DP: Same issue, less noticeable but still there with cutouts open or closed
91 tune for 3 BAR Stock DP: Issue is completely gone as of my test run on the way into work but have only done 3 pulls so I cant 100% confirm it is gone. tested both open and closed cutouts

I have gapped the plugs down to .030

 

[SHOdded]

I appreciate your logging your efforts to resolve these issues.  Great learning experience for all of us as well.

 

[ajpturbo]

Kinda sounds like 14shocars problems...high rpm stuttering/popping...only you are using the proper fuel so it makes me wonder what is going on

 

[16xsport]

nevermind... found it.

It does seem like it is similar to the videos. And no, I have no mixed anything in with my fuel. same station and same exact pump for the last year

UPDATE: Got the innovate data logger in... DO NOT BUY IT. it will only connect with innovate app and when you try to connect it to their computer based program it just wont connect. This logger is crap through and through. Picking up the kiwi today and hopefully have it in tomorrow

 

[ajpturbo]

Quit messing around and go livelink with sct....how much are u spending on that other crap?

 

[16xsport]

Picked up the Kiwi 2 for $30. Much better than the other innovate device. Going to start logging here when I get some time off this weekend.

Update: I filled up at a mobile and wasn't noticing the missing. I reloaded the 93 tune and didn't notice it for a couple runs. I did start noticing that its only at Redline that it is happening now which leads me to the next conclusion/question... does LMS have a rev limiter still built in, or am I just maxing out the fuel pressure at 6500RPM? Logging will tell on the later of the two.

I did have a slight hiccup at one point and it was acting like it couldn't find 2nd on a pull. Either way, the excuse that my Cutouts are causing the issue is out the door because they don't seem to make a difference at this point, open or closed.

 

[ajpturbo]

What the hell is kiwi garbage...need a real logger with a nice software package....not fuel pressure related...you have fuel for days up at 6500...the higher the better as far as rpm and fuel pressure...the problem would be above 15 psi and below 2500 rpm

 

[16xsport]

Kiwi is just the adapter so a phone/laptop can pick up the signal. The RPM hits the redline then it acts like there is a limiter there but a lot slower and more pronounced than an actual limiter

 

[ajpturbo]

Its how you read and view the data that sets apart the good logging packages...i doubt that kiwi thing will help you...almost seems like lms has something going in up top for some cars...we need good logs