Deatschwerks Developing EcoBoost Injectors In Time For 2015 Mustang
- Thread starter FoMoCoSHO
- Start date
IHeartGroceries
New member
Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?
You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.
Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.
So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out.
You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.
Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.
So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out.
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
The article posted in the OP is originally from January, 2014. Nobody that I know off has heard anything about any further development for this product.
SRT82ECOBOOST said:
I sent them an email and here's the reply.
Hey Michael,
Thank you for contacting us. We are working on Ecoboost injectors. There should be some updates soon as to when we will have them available. Is it okay with you if I add you to the mailing list for these notifications?
Thank you
James
-------------------------------------------------------------------
JAMES ARMSTRONG | Customer Service | james@deatschwerks.com
P: 405-217-0167 | F: 405-217-0700 | http://www.deatschwerks.com
cid:image001.png@01CF5E6E.6F2FC990
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
It would be great if the injectors actually came to market. I just have my doubts from this company that has promised numerous products that never found their way into customers cars.
So looking at this, if we were get get a +25% injector that can run at a higher pulse width that closes like a normal injector, wouldn't that at least help restore rail pressure?IHeartGroceries said:Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?
You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.
Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.
So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out.
It may not be the ultimate fix but it would help wouldn't it?
FoMoCoSHO said:So looking at this, if we were get get a +25% injector that can run at a higher pulse width that closes like a normal injector, wouldn't that at least help restore rail pressure?IHeartGroceries said:Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?
You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.
Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.
So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out.
It may not be the ultimate fix but it would help wouldn't it?
Nope....Only a pump can help pressure....The larger and higher flowing injector will only deliver more fuel at a given pulsewidth....That's why you always see flow rates for injectors in cc/min or lbs/hr at a given pressure...usually 43.5 psi in the non direct injected world.
if the injector pulsewidth is 2 milliseconds and both injectors are operating at the same pressure then the larger injector will deliver more flow.
Someone said earlier that as rpm increases then injector pulsewidth decreases...That's wrong...Pulsewidth in just the duration of time that the injector sprays fuel...So when load is higher and you are making more power then the fuel demand is higher and will require a longer pulsewidth
"Depending on the requirements of your engine (e.g.
fuel consumption over rotation ratio) we recommend
different types of tappets, piston springs and cam pro-
files. Please notice: Fuel delivery and maximum drive-
shaft speed depend on cam profile and type of tappet"
So I wonder if our cams are the limiting factor?
fuel consumption over rotation ratio) we recommend
different types of tappets, piston springs and cam pro-
files. Please notice: Fuel delivery and maximum drive-
shaft speed depend on cam profile and type of tappet"
So I wonder if our cams are the limiting factor?
Apparently you get get this pump made to support 500 bar.
Stock pump supports 200.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_resources/HP_Fuel_Pump_HDP_5_Datasheet_51_en_2776592395pdf.pdf
Stock pump supports 200.
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/catalog_resources/HP_Fuel_Pump_HDP_5_Datasheet_51_en_2776592395pdf.pdf
Because I'm not entirely sure that my current setup isn't capable of more aggressive tuning.ajpturbo said:
http://www.ethanolboost.com/LFEE%202008-01%20RP.pdf
This coupled with my experiences this winter lead me to believe less could be more as far as our cars are concerned.
IHeartGroceries
New member
Oh, yes. You're correct. Load increases, fuel demand incrases, pulse width increases, DC increases.ajpturbo said:FoMoCoSHO said:So looking at this, if we were get get a +25% injector that can run at a higher pulse width that closes like a normal injector, wouldn't that at least help restore rail pressure?IHeartGroceries said:Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?
You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.
Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.
So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out.
It may not be the ultimate fix but it would help wouldn't it?
Nope....Only a pump can help pressure....The larger and higher flowing injector will only deliver more fuel at a given pulsewidth....That's why you always see flow rates for injectors in cc/min or lbs/hr at a given pressure...usually 43.5 psi in the non direct injected world.
if the injector pulsewidth is 2 milliseconds and both injectors are operating at the same pressure then the larger injector will deliver more flow.
Someone said earlier that as rpm increases then injector pulsewidth decreases...That's wrong...Pulsewidth in just the duration of time that the injector sprays fuel...So when load is higher and you are making more power then the fuel demand is higher and will require a longer pulsewidth
I'd intended to say that your window of injection timing for optimal performance during high RPM, high load homogeneous operation decreases on GDI engines, as you're limited to injection only during the induction cycle. A PI system could of course inject during any of the four cycles.
If you're looking at injectors, it's critical that they are produced very precisely and are well made. Spray patterns are important. The ability to atomize fuel is hugely important. The newest GDI injectors are really pieces of art. So, I'd be slightly sceptical of anything remotely affordable.
If somebody has a set of the stockers, you can have them flow tested to learn exactly what you're working with, what kind of headroom you have. Unless that information is already out there.
The HPFP is almost certainly the bottleneck. Which is what I don't get about developing injectors. Even if you've maxed out injector DC, you can still invariably reduce your injector workload with a fuel pump upgrade and likely have what you need for your modest power goals.
This is apart of why I've preached an auxiliary PI system. I know 4DR did it. But never learned what his shortcomings were. It is easiest solution and easiest to get support for...
IHeartGroceries
New member
Looks like an auxiliary PI system.
Really is the best solution. Doesn't break the bank.
Really is the best solution. Doesn't break the bank.
