E 85? why not?
- Thread starter 76fomoco
- Start date
76fomoco said:
I just want to fall under the "smart guy" category so that's why I'm posting. Carry on......
It's a great question, why not full E85? There is a guy, Rich Yaklin Jr who spent a lot of money trying to do that and had various issues. I believe Livernois is claiming they have SHO customers with their HPFP...not sure which one, there's two....and running on full E85. You can get away with E30 stock HPFP.
Jordan now has the XDI pump and I believe he is still using e30. It would be nice to hear from Jordan, what his thoughts are on E85 as he could potentially be one to go that route.
As an end game.....Full E85, upgraded HPFP would be very potent and I would like to know what kind of perfomance that delivers as well.
I think Jacob is still running Full E85-Auxiliary Fuel system on his 13+SHO IIRC! Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=808.0
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=808.0
802SHO said:
Need lpfp upgrade to run any sort of full e85 reliably at over stock powers to be safe imo. There are a couple sho with port injection and an auxiliary system. My understanding though is that these cars can run so much timing with only E30 that the benefit of e85 isn't really there. I wouldn't even consider running full e85 unless I had big turbos. These stock exhaust housings being so restrictive that you are going to be mostly tapped out at 450awhp with methanol/hpfp upgrade. They are the absolute limit of the platform.
E30 is running 23-24 degrees of timing and that's a ton of timing. Throwing more at it is just going to cause the engine to fight itself so the benefit of the higher octane is basically nullified, but then again I have no actual information to link to say this is true, just what I've heard... I'm also no tuner on top of that
With the hpfp and E30 there is no benefit other than full mileage to run race fuel like I used to on the stock pump. If that puts the octane into perspective.
We need a low pressure pump upgrade... with the XDI-35 (bigger HPFP) and bigger turbos... the fuel system is maxing out just under 500awhp...
Matt even in his testing with non-ethanol race fuel found that the stock low side pump can’t keep up with much if any over 500awhp.....
There is a drop in low pressure pump in testing now....
E85 would be cool, but at this point... not feasible.
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Matt even in his testing with non-ethanol race fuel found that the stock low side pump can’t keep up with much if any over 500awhp.....
There is a drop in low pressure pump in testing now....
E85 would be cool, but at this point... not feasible.
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I've been running a blend of 5 gallons of 87 topped with E85 getting excellent results. Some would say that 87 is the best fuel if you take knock out of the equation, I'd be inclined to agree. Copious amounts of E85 suppress 87's inherent volatility. Rail seems much happier than when I was blending premium. The last 1st thru 3rd log showed pressure above 2K at all times. KR is a non issue, especially after the entire timing set was rebuilt.
I think a big problem is excessive enrichment killing the rail when its not necessary.
Anything more than what is needed to keep knock suppressed and exhaust temps in check just kills VE, stresses the pump out, and wastes fuel.
The only "issue" I have with big spark is that it pulls like a freight train in any gear/rpm. Throttle response is razor sharp. OAR has been "enhanced" for PT response as well. I would try MBT spark tables but one problem is with this much corn the engine would probably grenade before we saw any knock. The other problem is Brad might have a nervous breakdown, lol. Safety first, at least until I decide to build a motor. If I go that route we will turn it up until it pops, you know, for science....lol.
A bunch of work was just completed including a cracked CAC tube and a new strategy so new logs coming soon.
Reminder....After a trip to the dealership ALWAYS check your strategy even if you are repairing something seemingly unrelated. When they programmed the rack, IDS automatically updated the calibration or maybe the new rack required it....the only thing that stopped disaster was SHOdded's nagging voice and finger pointing in my head. LOL, thanks buddy!
I think a big problem is excessive enrichment killing the rail when its not necessary.
Anything more than what is needed to keep knock suppressed and exhaust temps in check just kills VE, stresses the pump out, and wastes fuel.
The only "issue" I have with big spark is that it pulls like a freight train in any gear/rpm. Throttle response is razor sharp. OAR has been "enhanced" for PT response as well. I would try MBT spark tables but one problem is with this much corn the engine would probably grenade before we saw any knock. The other problem is Brad might have a nervous breakdown, lol. Safety first, at least until I decide to build a motor. If I go that route we will turn it up until it pops, you know, for science....lol.
A bunch of work was just completed including a cracked CAC tube and a new strategy so new logs coming soon.
Reminder....After a trip to the dealership ALWAYS check your strategy even if you are repairing something seemingly unrelated. When they programmed the rack, IDS automatically updated the calibration or maybe the new rack required it....the only thing that stopped disaster was SHOdded's nagging voice and finger pointing in my head. LOL, thanks buddy!
E85 works. Brad will tune it for you. I think I am at 10 PSI boost with E85 and do not know the spark etc That keeps the fuel pressure in check but the fuel mileage is teribad around town. If the E85 is cheap enough. It saves ya a couple bucks a tank. It is definitely faster than stock but not Race fast or as fast as his E30 tune. Brad had told be that the benefits of power beyond E30. Lets say E40. E50 are not worth the gains you get if any.
I wouldn't say that's entirely correct. 50-50 gives you 90% of the benefits of full E85 in DI applications with benefit dropping as you blend down.Macgyver said:
I had a 10 PSI big spark tune but I had no issues running my full tune with my current mix and power levels this year. When I asked the Mrs if she'd like me to load the winter tune to minimize cold weather fill up time she said hell no, lol. I guess we know why she gets worse gas mileage than I did when driving it.
Pros above E50
Increased knock headroom
Cleaner engine
More money goes to American farmers who don't tend to fund terror activities
Bigger "big spark"
Later and less WOT enrichment needed...helps VE, consumption, and rail pressure.
Shiny exhaust tips
Less soot formation (pollution)
Cons
Crap MPG
Increased fuel dilution (more frequent oil changes may be needed)
EGT's, corn can burn very hot and ends up being the main factor in your enrichment schedule as knock is a non-issue.
Possible decrease in fuel component life cycle (I think this is mitigated with blends that have added lubricity from the additives from the straight gas)
I mean, that looks really scary...If we take that amount and divide it by the gazillion engine revolutions over your last 3K miles...Is there really an issue? Is it an issue that can be overcome by quality fuel and oil? Or an extra oil change maybe? The answer is probably "it depends" based on a crapload of variables.SM105K said:
The reality is this car is driven around 3K a year so the oil is changed every 1500.
I scoped the backside of the valves around 107K and it looked surprisingly good. I was expecting the worst because I don't get the impression the previous owner was too concerned with things like fuel quality.
PCV/valve cover update done.
Turbos were just inspected, everything looks good.
Our car just went out of warranty but modified PCV is a sure way to encounter warranty headaches depending on your servicing dealership.
So for now, I will continue to "roll dirty" without a catchcan.
FoMoCoSHO said:
I run mainly only Chevron 91/Mixed with their Flex Fuel (E51) for a E30 mix. I change my oil religiously every 3k miles. I just switched to Castrol Edge from Mobil 1 this past oil change. I do have a blackstone oil analysis with the old Mobil 1 in it sitting on the shelf. I will send that out soon. When I click off another 1,100 miles I will send the used Castrol off as well, to see the difference. I will also check the CC to see how much is in there at that time. It usually is about 1 oz per 1k miles. I have put 22K miles on this car since I bought it last April with 51K on her. The car has had a CC in it within the first 1000 miles of me owning it. So I think I have a pretty good median to go off of.
My PCU/Valve cover update was done from the factory.
My turbos are good, minimal amount of oil in the intercooler when it was upgraded. BOV seals have slight trace of oil.
My car isn't my daily anymore either. I normally drive it less then 60 miles a week. So less then 5k miles a year now. Unless I go on a long road trip and want the comfort. The ST can handle the Ca trips I make a couple of times a year.