E15 and 93 octane question

[ElvenSho]

What is the actual octane rating for E15? I cant seem to find the answer online but from what I did see it should be around 98. Right now I am tuned by Torrie with 93 octane from Shell pump and the car drives great. I am wondering if E15 is 98 octane than I should be able to get more out of my car with it + its way cheaper than 93 that I am paying for right now. My car is a 2011 and the warning/sticker on the fuel door says not to put e20 which means e15 should be fine right?

On Saturday I had half a tank of 93 in my car and I put 1.2gal of E85 but my car did not run correctly after about 5 minutes, it felt like it was being held back over 4k rpms until I put another 7 gallons of 93 octane, now my car feels more powerful than with 93 octane alone. I emailed Torrie asking if that was ok but he did not respond or my email never went to him lol.

I guess all I am wondering is if I am missign out by not using E15 since its way cheaper plus could give more power. i will email Torrie about it tonight.

BTW the Shell gas station sells, E15,e20,e25,e30,e85. Since e15 should be 85% 93octane and 15% ethanol it would make sense that it is stronger rating I guess.

 

[SHOdded]

This link has been cited many times, does the math for you:
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

Also remember, if there is crud in your fuel system, from tank to fuel injector, the extra ethanol will solubilize it, and your engine may not like it, at least initially.  So, small steps are highly recommended.

Is the 93 you use straight gas or E10?

 

[ElvenSho]

This link has been cited many times, does the math for you:
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

Also remember, if there is crud in your fuel system, from tank to fuel injector, the extra ethanol will solubilize it, and your engine may not like it, at least initially.  So, small steps are highly recommended.

Is the 93 you use straight gas or E10?

Should be straight 93 according to the owner of the Shell store.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[SHOdded]

So you can use 3.5 gallons of E85 to 16.5 gallons of straight 93 to get to E15.  That will put you at 95 octane per the calculator.

 

[ElvenSho]

So you can use 3.5 gallons of E85 to 16.5 gallons of straight 93 to get to E15.  That will put you at 95 octane per the calculator.

Ok but they already have the pump that sells e15 so I would not have to blend it myself so that should work than? Torrie just told me it all depends how much the fuel pressure would drop as far as if its worth it or not. I might try and log it for hom sometimes.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

The response I received from Shell...


"Thank you for contacting Shell Solutions Center.

In the US:

In order to comply with the Government’s Federal Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), most Shell gasoline contain 10% ethanol by volume.  Due to these Federal obligations, nearly every gallon of gasoline sold in the US must contain 10% ethanol.  While all states sell gasoline with ethanol, there are limited areas where ethanol free gasoline is sold, mostly for RV (recreational vehicle), marine or outdoor use.

To determine whether the gasoline you are purchasing contains ethanol, you should look for a label on the dispenser indicating ethanol content.  All gasoline stations should post a label on the dispenser advising if the gasoline contains ethanol and the maximum amount (depending on State laws, which may or may not make this labeling mandatory for 10% or less ethanol content).

In addition, the decision on whether to offer ethanol free gasoline is determined by each local Shell station as they are all independently owned and operated.  And because Shell stations are all independently owned and operated locally, we would not have a listing of which stations offer which grades of fuel."

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

So you can use 3.5 gallons of E85 to 16.5 gallons of straight 93 to get to E15.  That will put you at 95 octane per the calculator.

Ok but they already have the pump that sells e15 so I would not have to blend it myself so that should work than? Torrie just told me it all depends how much the fuel pressure would drop as far as if its worth it or not. I might try and log it for hom sometimes.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Man, you have blending pumps, so much win!

 

[ElvenSho]

The response I received from Shell...


"Thank you for contacting Shell Solutions Center.

In the US:

In order to comply with the Government’s Federal Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), most Shell gasoline contain 10% ethanol by volume.  Due to these Federal obligations, nearly every gallon of gasoline sold in the US must contain 10% ethanol.  While all states sell gasoline with ethanol, there are limited areas where ethanol free gasoline is sold, mostly for RV (recreational vehicle), marine or outdoor use.

To determine whether the gasoline you are purchasing contains ethanol, you should look for a label on the dispenser indicating ethanol content.  All gasoline stations should post a label on the dispenser advising if the gasoline contains ethanol and the maximum amount (depending on State laws, which may or may not make this labeling mandatory for 10% or less ethanol content).

In addition, the decision on whether to offer ethanol free gasoline is determined by each local Shell station as they are all independently owned and operated.  And because Shell stations are all independently owned and operated locally, we would not have a listing of which stations offer which grades of fuel."

Yup 91 and 89 have the sticker with 10% ethanol next to it but not 93.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

 

[ElvenSho]

So you can use 3.5 gallons of E85 to 16.5 gallons of straight 93 to get to E15.  That will put you at 95 octane per the calculator.

Ok but they already have the pump that sells e15 so I would not have to blend it myself so that should work than? Torrie just told me it all depends how much the fuel pressure would drop as far as if its worth it or not. I might try and log it for hom sometimes.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Man, you have blending pumps, so much win!

Yes I agree lol. Torrie wants me to do a short 30-60 WOT run for him with E85 on my 93 octane tune and he will let me know if its worth trying to do anything with it or not.

 

[ElvenSho]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

But why blend to make e15 when I can just get e15 at the pump? Thats the whole reason I am confused, is it better to get 93 octane and blend e85 or is it same as getting e15? I dont want to blow up my car lol.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

http://www.ethanolboost.com/LFEE%202008-01%20RP.pdf

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

But why blend to make e15 when I can just get e15 at the pump? Thats the whole reason I am confused, is it better to get 93 octane and blend e85 or is it same as getting e15? I dont want to blow up my car lol.

If our cars were gonna blow up from a little corn, Wassinger and I would be hoofin it right now, lol....

Personally I would blend to E30 with the straight gas, tune and datalog from there.

 

[ElvenSho]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

But why blend to make e15 when I can just get e15 at the pump? Thats the whole reason I am confused, is it better to get 93 octane and blend e85 or is it same as getting e15? I dont want to blow up my car lol.

If our cars were gonna blow up from a little corn, Wassinger and I would be hoofin it right now, lol....

Personally I would blend to E30 with the straight gas, tune and datalog from there.

e30 on an 2011? Also the pump has the option for e30 so i shouldnt have to blend. God this ethanol stuff is confusing.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

But why blend to make e15 when I can just get e15 at the pump? Thats the whole reason I am confused, is it better to get 93 octane and blend e85 or is it same as getting e15? I dont want to blow up my car lol.

You will wind up with higher octane using straight gas with corn because you can add more corn before you run out of fuel headroom.

Straight gas uses 0 corn to get to 93

Oxygenated uses corn to get to 93 so your headroom will disappear quicker, if that makes any sense.

 

[SHOdded]

What's the confusion, Elven?  What's getting you stuck?

1.  Octane is not synonymous with power.  Octane is the ability of the fuel to resist knock/detonation.
2.  Gasoline is more energy dense than ethanol.  So that means that to take advantage of the added octane that ethanol provides, your fuel pump has to be able to pump more volume than if it were pumping pure gasoline.  IE the headroom FoMoCoSHO spoke of.
3.  There are reliability issues with the seals inside any fuel system.  That's why the spec is there - up to E15, up to E20 etc.  Ethanol is more corrosive than gasoline, so the same seal you use for pure gasoline won't work so well in a mixed gasoline/ethanol environment.  Every design is built with a limit in mind.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'd use the straight gas topped off with corn using the calculator to get your desired blend.

But why blend to make e15 when I can just get e15 at the pump? Thats the whole reason I am confused, is it better to get 93 octane and blend e85 or is it same as getting e15? I dont want to blow up my car lol.

If our cars were gonna blow up from a little corn, Wassinger and I would be hoofin it right now, lol....

Personally I would blend to E30 with the straight gas, tune and datalog from there.

e30 on an 2011? Also the pump has the option for e30 so i shouldnt have to blend. God this ethanol stuff is confusing.

Hah, the devil is always in the details....

Ok, I wouldn't start at E30 with a 2011.

I'd start with straight gas and blend to e15 then slowly see what your system will tolerate from there....

 

[ElvenSho]

What's the confusion, Elven?  What's getting you stuck?

People recommending i datalog e30 even tho I have a 2011. Than kthe other guy saying to blend instead of just pump on a pump that has e15, etc. The biggest thing is if this will be benefitial since the fuel pressure will end up dropping and Torrie wont be able to push the system as far?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

The only difference in your fuel system is the low pressure pump.

Since I've never had a gen 4.1 to play with, I don't know exactly how much that changes the corn tolerance....

So....slow and steady till Torrie gets you dialed in.

Straight gas is the better option but it takes a little more work.

Once you do it a few times, its no biggie.

Do you run Torque?

It will show you real time fuel level which helps calculate your blend on the fly.

Keep in mind, unless you are on the ragged edge of fuel volume, being perfectly exact isn't necessary as the adaptives will trim it out for you. If you are on the ragged edge and screw up during the coldest part of winter, the ECM will step in and protect itself. At least that was my experiences....

 

[ElvenSho]

The only difference in your fuel system is the low pressure pump.

Since I've never had a gen 4.1 to play with, I don't know exactly how much that changes the corn tolerance....

So....slow and steady till Torrie gets you dialed in.

Straight gas is the better option but it takes a little more work.

Once you do it a few times, its no biggie.

Do you run Torque?

It will show you real time fuel level which helps calculate your blend on the fly.

Keep in mind, unless you are on the ragged edge of fuel volume, being perfectly exact isn't necessary as the adaptives will trim it out for you. If you are on the ragged edge and screw up during the coldest part of winter, the ECM will step in and protect itself. At least that was my experiences....

So your saying straight gas is better, is it even worth me trying to do anything different than the 93 octane tune I have. I dont want to waste mine or Torries time.