E85 or 100 octane

FoMoCoSHO said:
wasinger3000 said:
Found out the car won't start on e30 with the stock tune... hah.
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Something is not right there. I've been well over 30 with no issues. Even At that blend there's plenty of pump gas to get the party started.
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It's the 3 bar sensor then. I was very skeptical about 30% keeping the car from starting.

Only thing is I had to drive 5 miles home on the e30 tune with just 91 in the tank. Which I was not happy about. I made sure to keep the boost down as much as possible.

Next time I'll have to just bring the e85 with me to the station. 
 
4DRHTRD said:
wasinger3000 said:
4DRHTRD said:
wasinger3000 said:
Found out the car won't start on e30 with the stock tune... hah.
Click to expand...
Do you have a 3 bar sensor, cause it won't start with that installed either... :)
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Yeah that too. Hah. So I guess I better keep that 2 bar in the trunk just in case.... This ecm is such a baby!
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The intercept and slope is different on the 2 bar vs the 3 bar, it's getting different pressure readings than actual readings, that's the problem. :)
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That explains that! It's nice to know it doesn't work because of me and not itself being weird. ;D
 
I banged my head against the slope/intercept scenario to try and get the 3 bar to work on the Flex when I was trying to learn how to tune it myself. The solution was MUCH easier than I had realized however. :)
 
This is a good read. Shows the octane rating of different E blends as well. http://www.energyresourcefulness.org/Fuels/refineries_and_octane_levels.html
 
4DRHTRD said:
I banged my head against the slope/intercept scenario to try and get the 3 bar to work on the Flex when I was trying to learn how to tune it myself. The solution was MUCH easier than I had realized however. :)
Click to expand...

Do our fuel systems have a return line? Does the fuel in the tanks get circulated at all? I hope they do because i put e85 in after filling 91 since i had to do it at home. Since they are saddle tanks they have to be used evenly or at least leveled somehow. 
 
So we multiply the ethanol stated %age by 0.92 to get actual %age.  Wonder how you figure out the compression limits of an engine.
 
SHOdded said:
So we multiply the ethanol stated %age by 0.92 to get actual %age.  Wonder how you figure out the compression limits of an engine.
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Once I get some free time tonight I'm going to read threw as much of that site as I can and see what's most relevant.
 
Found some info on saddle tanks. I assume they are similar if not identical on our vehicle.

Operation Overview:

Mustang has a saddle type fuel tank in that there is a hump in the middle of the fuel tank for the driveshaft.

There is one electric pump and fuel level sensor (FL-1) on the LH (driver side) of the fuel tank, this is the FPM.

There is a fuel pick up and fuel level sensor (FL-2) on the RH (passenger side) of the fuel tank.

The system draws fuel first from the RH side of the tank. The FPM siphons fuel from RH side of the tank via the fuel pick up. Once the fuel level on the RH is too low to siphon fuel, there are check valves that close and the fuel will now be drawn from LH side of the tank via the FPM.

The fuel level senders read the fuel levels on both sides of the tank. The two values are averaged for display on the fuel gauge.

The fuel gauge system will drop the fuel gauge indicator to E if it sees a large difference in the fuel levels from RH (FL-2) to LH (FL-1) fuel level sensors. The system is expecting the RH (FL-2) side of the tank to go down before the LH (FL-1). Sending the fuel gauge indicator to E and having the message center low fuel warning turn on warns the customer that they may run out of fuel.
 
wasinger3000 said:
This is a good read. Shows the octane rating of different E blends as well. http://www.energyresourcefulness.org/Fuels/refineries_and_octane_levels.html
Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to read it all, but just skimming, that's definitely one of the more accurate and comprehensive summaries of the refining and supply infrastructure available on the Internet.

Also, I've never heard of such a thing as true E100. Ethanol used for petroleum blending is really E98, as it is denatured, losing ~2 percent content to various additives. If you have E98 available to you, you're essentially just getting pure, denatured ETOH, same **** we've got to blend into R/PBOB or CBOBs in distribution.

Has anybody put an otherwise stock EB, with a tuned E blend on a dyno? I mean, a Torrie tuned stock EB on E, vs. baseline, particularly.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 
I wish I had a dyno close by. Id love to see the differences.

I'm going to get E98 next time since the pump I got "e85" from is actually blending it at 65%.
 
More recently, manufacturers have eliminated the % detector and use a “deductive refueling logic” to determine what fuel has been added to the vehicle. When the PCM “sees” that there has been a sudden change in fuel tank level, it deduces the amount of oxygenate from O2 content in the exhaust and makes the appropriate changes to fuel delivery. These include different base injector pulse widths and different ignition timing curves (more fuel, advanced spark timing).

We just need a way to access this info.
 
You can see it work when you fill up, watch your trims and timing go bonkers. It's better with OBDLINK or dash command because you can see the fine adjustments due to their speed.

One night I did an experiment with Dash command, I ran the tank to zero miles and filled to my normal 93 level and drove for a while. After the car was back to stock trims, I did some Torque pulls and was 355-365.

Then i went and added the corn and spent about 45 minutes letting the car re trim . My buddy who was in the car said the car progressively felt more powerful the longer i drove it which was my feeling also.

The next set of WOT blasts yielded a best of 416 TQ.

 
My last 4 tanks/blends

I am going to start tracking peak WHP/WTQ also to see if there is a pattern when increasing and decreasing.

Starting Blend   93    E-85       New Blend
25.00           11.97 5.99             28.20
28.20           10.65 5.35             28.40
28.40           11.27 5.40             27.60
27.60           10.99 5.88             29.40
 
What kind of  highway milage are you seeing on that blend? Around the 75-80 mph range.

Also can you see what fuel rail pressure you average at that speed?
 
Honestly not sure, for my normal commute I'm locked in at 72. I was getting 20-21 overall but some numbnutz at the d-ship had my tires at 45psi. Now I'm right at 18. 
 
No. Probably not a bad idea though I will say based on trim behavior, the winter/summer blends seem pretty consistent. I also trust these guys don't play fast and loose with msds data. Tptb in this state can get a little cranky when that happens.
 
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